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The Use of δια in Galatians 2:1

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The Use of δια in Galatians 2:1

Postby uberdwayne » Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:57 pm

Galatians 2:1 wrote:῎Επειτα διὰ δεκατεσσάρων ἐτῶν πάλιν ἀνέβην εἰς ῾Ιεροσόλυμα


Hey guys,

When I read this, my initial though was that he went up to Jerusalem during the 14 years he speaks of. However, when I look at a number of other English translations, they all translate it "after" or "later" making his visit to jerusalem after the 14 years, and not during. I know the dative by itself expresses a "Point" in time, and when I check Wallace on δια, He says nothing about "after."

Am I missing something?
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Re: The Use of δια in Galatians 2:1

Postby uberdwayne » Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:58 pm

Sorry, I meant to put this under koine greek, Could I get one of the Moderators to move this post for me?

Thanks.
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Re: The Use of δια in Galatians 2:1

Postby NateD26 » Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:17 pm

It's an interesting question, and I suppose not limited to Koine.
We have a temporal adverb as well as a temporal prepositional phrase.

῎Επειτα by itself only indicates "mere sequence"*, with the sense thereafter, afterwards
without specifying the duration of time passed. The prepositional phrase διά + gen. can mean
the duration of time throughout which an action/event happened.** But it would not
make sense here when we have ῎Επειτα. And I think above all, context matters:
πάλιν alludes to a previous trip to the Jerusalem, the one mentioned in 1:18.


*LSJ I 1.
**LSJ II 1.
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Re: The Use of δια in Galatians 2:1

Postby daivid » Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:46 pm

If you look up δια in Diogenes you get both
"of duration from one end of a period to the other, throughout,"
and
"of the interval which has passed between two points of Time"

However duration is only possible if the action is repeated which would require the imperfect.
What we have is the aorist ἀνέβην, that is a single completed action.
That surely must imply that the entire 14 years must be passed through before the action of going up to Jerusalem occurs.
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Re: The Use of δια in Galatians 2:1

Postby uberdwayne » Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:51 pm

So this would be an exceptional use of δια in this phrase rather than a normal usage? Is there any comment on the frequency with which δια is used in this way?
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Re: The Use of δια in Galatians 2:1

Postby daivid » Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:42 pm

uberdwayne wrote:So this would be an exceptional use of δια in this phrase rather than a normal usage? Is there any comment on the frequency with which δια is used in this way?

To me the two alternative definitions of δια boil down to the same thing. They are both are about going through the entire 14 years. I am suggesting that if you have δια followed by a time period in the genitive and then an aorist verb then the action of that verb must occur at the end.

I'm suggesting that this all about the contrasting aspect of aorist and imperfect verbs.

It follows that when you instead have an imperfect then it will describe a repeated action that will occur throughout the time period but I will have to check that this is indeed the case.
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Re: The Use of δια in Galatians 2:1

Postby NateD26 » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:11 am

I realize now my initial reply falls through because my arguments do not
necessarily lead to agreeing with the predominant reading of δια in Galatians 2:1.

But I would ask you how does this verse differ from 1:18 where we have a similar construction
with μετά + acc.:
Ἔπειτα μετὰ ἔτη τρία ἀνῆλθον εἰς Ἱεροσόλυμα ἱστορῆσαι Κηφᾶν...

Do you not read this μετά + acc. as after? He just seems to list his travels, using
ἔπειτα to mark succession and indicating in 1:18 and 2:1 the period of time passed since
the events of the previous verses (1:17 and 1:21-24 respectively).

I would also ask you to supply examples where διά + gen. means during. In Attic,
κατά + acc. carries that meaning. Perhaps in Koine it does? I'm not sure.
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Re: The Use of δια in Galatians 2:1

Postby daivid » Mon Sep 16, 2013 7:32 pm

NateD26 wrote:I realize now my initial reply falls through because my arguments do not
necessarily lead to agreeing with the predominant reading of δια in Galatians 2:1.

But I would ask you how does this verse differ from 1:18 where we have a similar construction
with μετά + acc.:
Ἔπειτα μετὰ ἔτη τρία ἀνῆλθον εἰς Ἱεροσόλυμα ἱστορῆσαι Κηφᾶν...

Do you not read this μετά + acc. as after? He just seems to list his travels, using
ἔπειτα to mark succession and indicating in 1:18 and 2:1 the period of time passed since
the events of the previous verses (1:17 and 1:21-24 respectively).

I would also ask you to supply examples where διά + gen. means during. In Attic,
κατά + acc. carries that meaning. Perhaps in Koine it does? I'm not sure.


I tried to track down some example by flicking through Diodoros book 15 but either the use of δια + gen + time_interval is rare or I am bad at spotting such.
That δια can mean both
"duration from one end of a period to the other"
and
"the interval which has passed between two points"
http://www.aoidoi.org/diogenes/Perseus.cgi?do=prev_entry&lang=grk&q=25571393&popup=1&font=

I would like to have such extra examples but when you see δια + a time period being used as in effect and adverb for a verb in the aorist as in Galatians 2:1 then is there any alternative other than for the action of the verb to occur after the time period?

I would agree with you that the context seems to require "after" in any case.
And also, yes, there are many ways to say "after" in Greek such as μετά + acc.
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Re: The Use of δια in Galatians 2:1

Postby uberdwayne » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:27 pm

When I have time, I'll take a look through some of my own corpus (NT and Apostolic Fathers) to see if I can find any examples.... I have a feeling though that they may be very few and far between. Is there perhaps a different "flavor" to this phrase in koine then the earlier dialects? I've only spent time in koine texts, so I am unable to tell.
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Re: The Use of δια in Galatians 2:1

Postby C. S. Bartholomew » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:21 pm

The standard lexicons handle this. Danker (3rd ed) p244, 2.c is significantly preferable to Grimm-Thayer p133 II.2. Louw & Nida (1989):

67.15 διὰ παντόςa: (an idiom, literally ‘through all’) a number of related points of time, occurring at regular intervals — ‘regularly, periodically.’ εἰς μὲν τὴν πρώτην σκηνὴν διὰ παντὸς εἰσίασιν οἱ ἱερεῖς τὰς λατρείας ἐπιτελοῦντες ‘the priests go into the outer tent regularly to perform their duties’ He 9:6.

67.59 δι᾿ ἡμερῶν: (an idiom, literally ‘through days’) a point of time subsequent to another point of time after an interval of a few days — ‘a few days later.’ εἰσελθὼν πάλιν εἰς Καφαρναοὺμ δι᾿ ἡμερῶν ‘a few days later he came back to Capernaum’ Mk 2:1.

67.60 δι᾿ ἐτῶν: (an idiom, literally ‘through years’) a point of time subsequent to another point of time after an interval of some years — ‘some years later.’ δι᾿ ἐτῶν δὲ πλειόνων ἐλεημοσύνας ποιήσων εἰς τὸ ἔθνος μου παρεγενόμην καὶ προσφοράς ‘after a number of years I went to take some money to my own people and to make offerings’ Ac 24:17.

67.86 ἀεί; διὰ παντόςb (an idiom, literally ‘through all’): duration of time, either continuous or episodic, but without limits — ‘always, constantly, continually.’
ἀεί: ὡς λυπούμενοι ἀεὶ δὲ χαίροντες ‘although saddened, we are always glad’ 2Cor 6:10.
διὰ παντόςb: διὰ παντὸς βλέπουσι τὸ πρόσωπον τοῦ πατρός μου ‘they are always in the presence of my Father’ Mt 18:10.
In some languages there may be problems involved in rendering ἀεί or διὰ παντόςb, since there may be a basic distinction between (a) continuous activity and (b) activity which may be defined as ‘episodic’ in that it regularly recurs in related episodes. For example, in 2Cor 6:10 the fact of being glad may be related specifically to the occasions of being saddened, while in Mt 18:10 the focus of meaning is probably upon the continuous nature of the relation.


Gal. 2:2 ἀνέβην δὲ κατὰ ἀποκάλυψιν· καὶ ἀνεθέμην αὐτοῖς τὸ εὐαγγέλιον ὃ κηρύσσω ἐν τοῖς ἔθνεσιν, κατ᾿ ἰδίαν δὲ τοῖς δοκοῦσιν, μή πως εἰς κενὸν τρέχω ἢ ἔδραμον.

Acts 24:17 δι᾿ ἐτῶν δὲ πλειόνων ἐλεημοσύνας ποιήσων εἰς τὸ ἔθνος μου παρεγενόμην καὶ προσφοράς,

Mark 2:1 Καὶ εἰσελθὼν πάλιν εἰς Καφαρναοὺμ δι᾿ ἡμερῶν ἠκούσθη ὅτι ἐν οἴκῳ ἐστίν.

See also Moule:Idioms p56.

Danker lists Hdt 6.118.3 and Th. 2.94.3

Hdt 6.118.3
Δᾶτις μὲν δὴ ταῦτα ἐντειλάμενος ἀπέπλεε, τὸν δὲ ἀνδριάντα τοῦτον Δήλιοι οὐκ ἀπήγαγον, ἀλλά μιν δι’ ἐτέων εἴκοσι Θηβαῖοι αὐτοὶ ἐκ θεοπροπίου ἐκομίσαντο ἐπὶ Δήλιον.

Datis gave this order and sailed away, but the Delians never carried that statue away; twenty years later the Thebans brought it to Delium by command of an oracle.

Th. 2.94.3
2.94.3 the state of their ships also causing them some anxiety, as it was a long while since they had been launched, and they were not water-tight.

ἔστι γὰρ ὅτι καὶ αἱ νῆες αὐτοὺς διὰ χρόνου καθελκυσθεῖσαι καὶ οὐδὲν στέγουσαι ἐφόβουν. ἀφικόμενοι δὲ ἐς τὰ Μέγαρα πάλιν ἐπὶ τῆς Κορίνθου ἀπεχώρησαν πεζῇ·

LSJ

of the interval which has passed between two points of Time, δ. χρόνου πολλοῦ or δ. πολλοῦ χρ. after a long time, Id.3.27, Ar.Pl.1045; δ. μακρῶν χρόνων Pl.Ti.22d: without an Adj., δ. χρόνου after a time, S.Ph.758, X.Cyr.1.4.28, etc.; διʼ ἡμερῶν after several days, Ev.Marc.2.1; and with Adjs. alone, διʼ ὀλίγου Th.5.14; οὐ δ. μακροῦ Id.6.15, 91; δ. πολλοῦ Luc.Nigr.2, etc.: with Numerals, διʼ ἐτέων εἴκοσι Hdt.6.118, cf. OGI 56.38 (iii B. C.), etc.: but δ. τῆς ἑβδόμης till the seventh day, Luc.Hist.Conscr.21: also distributively, χρόνος δ. χρόνου προὔβαινε time after time, S.Ph.285; ἄλλος διʼ ἄλλου E.Andr.1248 .
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Re: The Use of δια in Galatians 2:1

Postby uberdwayne » Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:12 pm

Thank you very much for all your input, props go out to Bartholomew for typing all that in :D. It seems very reasonable the Paul had the intention of "After" rather than sometime "during the space of." It seems as though the "point in time" of the dative has been expanded by the use of δια. Another account is context, which I think we would all agree has much more bearing on a passage than grammatical form. do we all agree on that? Perhaps another thread.
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Re: The Use of δια in Galatians 2:1

Postby Markos » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:45 am

uberdwayne wrote:It seems very reasonable the Paul had the intention of "After" rather than sometime "during the space of."


I don't think there is much question that "after" is basically what Paul means here. Note Bambas' Katharevousa version:
Bambas, Gal. 2:1a wrote:
ἔπειτα μετὰ δεκατέσσαρα ἔτη πάλιν ἀνέβην εἰς Ἰεροσόλυμα...


Another account is context, which I think we would all agree has much more bearing on a passage than grammatical form. do we all agree on that?


Yes, I agree. Context is always king. And I'm not aware of anyone who thinks the context would suggest that Paul meant anything other than "after 14 years" here.
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Re: The Use of δια in Galatians 2:1

Postby mwh » Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:07 am

Difference between meta+acc and dia+gen. in a sentence such as this? Very little, and each is correctly translated "After," but the latter is more precisely "after an interval of 14 yrs". (And if something happens at 14-yr intervals, that's also dia+gen.)
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Re: The Use of δια in Galatians 2:1

Postby uberdwayne » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:23 pm

Difference between meta+acc and dia+gen. in a sentence such as this? Very little, and each is correctly translated "After," but the latter is more precisely "after an interval of 14 yrs". (And if something happens at 14-yr intervals, that's also dia+gen.)


Very interesting! is there a source for this information!
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Re: The Use of δια in Galatians 2:1

Postby mwh » Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:49 pm

Sorry, the source is only my own knowledge of Greek ;)
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