Quam gratiam

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pmda
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Quam gratiam

Post by pmda »

I can't understand this sentence:

In Orberg's LLPSI Exercitia 6 of Cap XL the following is asked:

12. Quam gratiam Dido sibi referendam esse putabat?

What (?) payment did Dido think she deserved?

answer: Gratiam sibi referendam putabat quod Troianos servaverat.

...but the answer appears to be to a different question.

'she thought she should receive payment because she saved the the Trojans'.

I took it that 'quam' is an interrogative adjective 'What payment'......

What does 'quod' mean here...?

Qimmik
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Re: Quam gratiam

Post by Qimmik »

gratiam here means "favor"

referendam 'to be returned or repaid'

"'quam' is an interrogative adjective" -- yes

quod - 'because' + indicative.

You're right: the answer given is not an exact answer to the question.

An exact answer might be: Gratiam quam sibi refendam esse putabat Dido erat quod Troianos servaverat. But this isn't very elegant.

quod + indicative can also mean "the fact that".

Allen & Greenough 572:

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... ythp%3D572
Last edited by Qimmik on Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

adrianus
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Re: Quam gratiam

Post by adrianus »

Primò anglicè "because" legi. Tunc credi quod scripsisti, Qimmik, "that"— non satius attentè legi. Nunc "because" scribis et bonum est, concurro. Me foliam in vento sentio.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.

pmda
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Re: Quam gratiam

Post by pmda »

But Quimmik surely your exact answer simply rephrases the original - answering the question what did she expect with a statement of why she expected it:

If the question is 'Quam gratiam..?' What reward or payment did she expect? then the exact answer must surely be along the lines of:

'Dido optavit ut Aeneas sibi in conubio coniungeret.'

Qimmik
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Re: Quam gratiam

Post by Qimmik »

No, the question here is not what she expected in repayment but rather what favor, gratia, Dido performed which she wanted repaid to her, referre. The favor she performed was saving the Trojans.

pmda
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Re: Quam gratiam

Post by pmda »

d

pmda
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Re: Quam gratiam

Post by pmda »

Q. Quam gratiam Dido sibi referendam esse putabat?

A. Gratiam sibi referendam putabat quod Troianos servaverat.


OK so - using literal deponent construction:

Q. What was the favour that Dido believed was worthy of repayment?

A. The favour she believed worthy of repayment was with respect [using a Whitaker's Words translation of 'quod'] to saving the Trojans.

adrianus
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Re: Quam gratiam

Post by adrianus »

Is there a line in Chapter XL that gives the answer?
Estne linea in capitulo quae quaestionem spectat?
Last edited by adrianus on Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.

pmda
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Re: Quam gratiam

Post by pmda »

Nihil scribitur de hac re; sed Aeneas in sermo cum Didone ei dicit ut numquam ei in conubio coniungere promitteret.

adrianus
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Re: Quam gratiam

Post by adrianus »

Secundum Orbergensem in hoc capitulo, sic Dido dicit: "In litus eiectum, egentem te excepi et—demens—partem regni dedi, classem amissam restitui, socios a morte servavi!""

"Gratiam sibi referendam putabat quod Troianos servaverat" = "She figured that favour/gratitude/esteem was due[/ought to be given] to her because she had helped the Trojans."

Sed verum ambiguum est quod et hoc habes:

"She figured that a service/favour [given to Aeneas] was due[/ought to be repaid] to her, namely that [/the fact that] she had helped the Trojans." This fits the question "quam gratiam...?" // quod aptum est quaestioni citatae.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.

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