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how do you say "I'm hot/cold" in Anc Greek

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how do you say "I'm hot/cold" in Anc Greek

Postby daivid » Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:13 pm

Every now and then on the Agora weather thread I want to say things like "today its hot but I'm cold" etc.
I know in German it would be "I have hot" and in Serbo Croat it would be "It's hot to me"(ie dative).

None of my reading so far has been of Greeks chatting about the weather so I have not
clue what it should be.

Suggestions?
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Re: how do you say "I'm hot/cold" in Anc Greek

Postby NateD26 » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:16 pm

You could perhaps consult the Septuagint which read literally
Kings 1, 1:1, as Καὶ ὁ βασιλεὺς Δαυιδ πρεσβύτερος προβεβηκὼς ἡμέραις, καὶ
περιέβαλλον αὐτὸν ἱματίοις, καὶ οὐκ ἐθερμαίνετο.

NSRV:
King David was old and advanced in years; and although they covered him with clothes,
he could not get warm.

This rightly uses the imperfect, and I'd use an aorist for simply saying I'm warm/cold.
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Re: how do you say "I'm hot/cold" in Anc Greek

Postby daivid » Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:29 pm

NateD26 wrote:You could perhaps consult the Septuagint which read literally
Kings 1, 1:1, as Καὶ ὁ βασιλεὺς Δαυιδ πρεσβύτερος προβεβηκὼς ἡμέραις, καὶ
περιέβαλλον αὐτὸν ἱματίοις, καὶ οὐκ ἐθερμαίνετο.

NSRV:
King David was old and advanced in years; and although they covered him with clothes,
he could not get warm.

This rightly uses the imperfect, and I'd use an aorist for simply saying I'm warm/cold.


Yes that is the kind of quote I was looking for. Thanks very much.
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Re: how do you say "I'm hot/cold" in Anc Greek

Postby NateD26 » Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:19 pm

Alternatively, you could use Perseus to find headwords related to cold
& warm.
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Re: how do you say "I'm hot/cold" in Anc Greek

Postby daivid » Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:50 pm

NateD26 wrote:Alternatively, you could use Perseus to find headwords related to cold
& warm.

I know the words. I could just write "ἐιμὶ θερμος" but that would be like assuming I could in German say "Ich bin heis" and the single thing I remember from school German is the warning not to say that in Germany unless your intention is quite different from the English "I am hot".
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Re: how do you say "I'm hot/cold" in Anc Greek

Postby Qimmik » Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:05 pm

You might try perfect mediopassives: κεκρύωμαι or ἐρρίγωμαι, τεθέρμασμαι. But I can't be sure that that's how Plato would have said it.
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Re: how do you say "I'm hot/cold" in Anc Greek

Postby daivid » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:34 am

Qimmik wrote:You might try perfect mediopassives: κεκρύωμαι or ἐρρίγωμαι, τεθέρμασμαι. But I can't be sure that that's how Plato would have said it.

While "attested in the sources" is clearly the gold standard I am quite happy with we can't be sure if they ever said it like this but it would be in the spirit of the language to do so.
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Re: how do you say "I'm hot/cold" in Anc Greek

Postby Qimmik » Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:30 am

Another possibility: ἔχω + adverb

From LSJ ἔχω:

II. simply, be, “ἑκὰς εἶχον” Od.12.435; “ἔ. κατ᾽ οἴκους” Hdt.6.39; “περὶ πολλῶν ἔ. πρηγμάτων” Id.3.128; ἀγῶνα διὰ πάσης ἀγωνίης ἔχοντα consisting in . . , Id.2.91; “ἔ. ἐν ἀνάγκαισι” E.Ba. 88 (lyr.); “ὅπου συμφορᾶς ἔχεις” Id.El.238; “ἐκποδὼν ἔχειν” Id.IT1226, etc.
2. freq. with Advbs. of manner, “εὖ ἔχει” Od.24.245, etc.; καλῶς ἔχει, κακῶς ἔχει, it is, is going on well or ill, v. καλός, κακός (but fut. σχήσειν καλῶς will turn out well, D.1.9, cf. 18.45; “εὖ σχήσει” S.Aj. 684); οὕτως . . σχεῖν to turn out, happen thus, Pl.Ap.39b; οὕτως ἔχει so the case stands, Ar.Pl.110; οὕτως ἐχόντων, Lat. cum res ita se habeant, X.An.3.2.10; “ὡς ὧδ᾽ ἐχόντων” S.Aj.981; “οὕτω χρὴ διὰ στέρνων ἔχειν” Id.Ant.639; “οὕτως ἔ. περί τινος” X.Mem.4.8.7, cf. Hdt.6.16; “πρός τι” D. 9.45; “τῇδ᾽ ἔ.” S.Ph.1336; “κοσμίως ἔ.” Ar.Th.854; “ἥδιον ἔ. πρός τινας” D.9.63; ὡς εἶχε just as he was, Hdt.1.114; “ὥσπερ εἶχε” Th.1.134, X. HG4.1.30; ὡς ἔχω how I am, Ar.Lys.610; “ὥσπερ ἔχομεν” Th.3.30; “τἀναντία εἶχεν” D.9.41; ἀσφαλέως, ἀναγκαίως ἔχει, = ἀσφαλές, ἀναγκαῖόν ἐστι, Hdt.1.86,9.27; καλῶς ἔχει no, I thank you, v. καλός.


http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3De%29%2Fxw1
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Re: how do you say "I'm hot/cold" in Anc Greek

Postby NateD26 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:06 pm

I remember the use of ἔχω + adverb. Very common.

Qimmik, what verb does κεκρύωμαι come from? Couldn't find it anywhere.
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Re: how do you say "I'm hot/cold" in Anc Greek

Postby Qimmik » Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:40 pm

kruo/omai. Unfortunately I can't seem to access LSJ online, but my hard copy lists it as a passive deponent with the meaning "be icy-cold" and a single citation of the form kruou=tai, "it freezes" from what must be an obscure Latin glossary included in the Corpus Glossariorum Latinorum ed. G. Loewe, G. Goetz & F. Schoell, Leipzig 1888-1924.

But despite lack of attestation in an authentic Greek text, it follows the canonical Greek rules of word-formation, and since I haven't been able to find a cite to Plato for "to be cold", something like this will have to do.

"I'm freezing!"
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Re: how do you say "I'm hot/cold" in Anc Greek

Postby NateD26 » Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:05 pm

Thanks, Qimmik.

My TLG database lists this verb in these citations:

Fragmenta Alchemica, Περὶ τῆς τιμιωτάτης καὶ πολυφήμου χρυσοχοϊκῆς
(e cod. Paris. B.N. gr. 2327, fol. 280r)
Volume 2, page 330, line 9


Καὶ ὅταν κρυώσῃ, μεταχώνευσαι τὸ βεργὴν εἰς ῥυγλωχύτην
εἰς τεάφην.

ibid. page 336, line 21

Εἶτα ἐν δυσὶ χυτριδίοις μέρος ἑκάτερον τῶν ὑγρῶν ἐμβαλὼν, ποίησον
τῶν διὰ μαστωτῶν ὀργάνων ὑστείαν μεγάλην· ὅσον να ἴδῃς ὅτι ἔλυσεν
ἐκεῖνον, ὅπου ἔνι μέσα εἰς τὴν μπότζαν, καὶ ἐπίγεν εἰς τὸ φοῦντος
ὡς ἂν κερὴν, καὶ τότε ἄφες το να κρυώσῃ, καὶ τζάκησαί το, καὶ
θέλεις εὑρεῖν ἐκεῖνον ὁποῦ ἔνι μέσα πολύτιμον, καὶ ἐκεῖνον θέλει ἔσται
διὰ τὴν χρείαν σου.

ibid. page 337, line 1

Εἶτα εὔγαλον αὐτὸ ἔξω καὶ ἄφες
το να κρυώσῃ, καὶ γίνεται μέλαν· ἀλλὰ χρωΐζει πρὸς ἐρυθράδαν, καὶ
αὐτὸ ἔσται τὸ φάρμακον.

Cyrillus Theol., Expositio in Psalmos
Volume 69, page 1189, line 23


(G f. 72) Διὰ τούτων τὸν πάντα κόσμον τῆς οἰ-
κουμένης [σημαίνει·] ἔξοδον μὲν τὴν ἀνατολὴν, ἀφ'
ἧς ὁ ἥλιος ἔξεισι· δυσμὸν δὲ τὴν ἑσπερίαν· ὄρη τε
ἔρημα τὸ ἀρκτῷον καὶ νότιον· ταῦτα γὰρ δι' ἀμε-
τρίαν κρυοῦ τε καὶ καύσωνος ἀοίκητά ἐστι.

Instances of ῤιγόω appear to be more frequent in Plato:

Plato Phil., Theaetetus
Stephanus page 152, section b, line 1-8

Σωκράτης
εἰκὸς μέντοι σοφὸν ἄνδρα μὴ ληρεῖν: ἐπακολουθήσωμεν οὖν αὐτῷ.
ἆρ᾽ οὐκ ἐνίοτε πνέοντος ἀνέμου τοῦ αὐτοῦ ὁ μὲν ἡμῶν ῥιγῷ, ὁ δ᾽ οὔ;
καὶ ὁ μὲν ἠρέμα, ὁ δὲ σφόδρα;

Θεαίτητος
καὶ μάλα.

Σωκράτης
πότερον οὖν τότε αὐτὸ ἐφ᾽ ἑαυτοῦ τὸ πνεῦμα ψυχρὸν ἢ οὐ ψυχρὸν φήσομεν;
ἢ πεισόμεθα τῷ Πρωταγόρᾳ ὅτι τῷ μὲν ῥιγῶντι ψυχρόν, τῷ δὲ μὴ οὔ;

Θεαίτητος
ἔοικεν.
----------------------
Socrates
It is likely that a wise man is not talking nonsense; so let us follow after him.
Is it not true that sometimes, when the same wind blows, one of us feels cold,
and the other does not? or one feels slightly and the other exceedingly cold?

Theaetetus
Certainly.

Socrates
Then in that case, shall we say that the wind is in itself cold or not cold or shall
we accept Protagoras's saying that it is cold for him who feels cold and not for him
who does not?

Theaetetus
Apparently we shall accept that.
-- Harold N. Fowler (1921)
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Re: how do you say "I'm hot/cold" in Anc Greek

Postby Qimmik » Thu Aug 01, 2013 1:30 pm

It looks like ῥιγόω regularly means "I'm cold" in well-attested Attic and other ancient Greek sources.

LSJ: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Dr%28igo%2Fw

ῥιγ-όω , fut.
A.“-ώσω” X.Mem.2.1.17, Ep. inf. “-ωσέμεν” Od. 14.481: aor. “ἐρρίγωσα” Hp.Epid.3.1.ς´, (ἐν-) Ar.Pl.846: pf. “ἐρριγωκότες” Thphr.Ign.74 (vv. ll. ἐρριγότες, ἐρριγνωκότες), Gal.11.556.—Like ἱδρόω, has an irreg. contr. into ω, ῳ, for ου, οι, 3sg. subj. “ῥιγῷ” Pl.Grg. 517d, cj. in Phd.85a; opt. “ῥιγῴη” Hp.Int.10, Plu.2.233a; inf. “ῥιγῶν” Ar.Ach.1146, V.446, Av.935, Pl.R.440c, X.Cyr.5.1.11; part. fem. “ῥιγῶσα” Semon.7.26, but acc. masc. “ῥιγοῦντα” Phld.Vit.p.22J.:—to be cold, shiver, Od.14.481, Hdt.5.92.ή, Hp.VM16, etc.; though several forms may belong either to this word or to ῥιγέω, as “ῥιγῶν τε καὶ πεινῶν” Ar.Ach.857, cf.Nu.416, Crates Com.33, Pl.Grg.517d.
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Re: how do you say "I'm hot/cold" in Anc Greek

Postby Scribo » Thu Aug 01, 2013 2:03 pm

Off the top of my head: κρυόομαι and its variants were certainly more common than literary attestation would suggest; not least because it became canonical in post Classical Greek until modern day. This is your main one.

ῥιγόω is also fine though from what I recall it appears more often as a participle and tends to take the sense of shivering, shaking as much as cold. Also gets confused with ῥιγέω. Also the shuddering can be related to hot too like ῥιγόλυτον for a hot bath so the motion may be more important than the state.

Hot; much wider range here. There is a verb, I can't recall, from the zest- root I believe (or maybe from ζωθαλπής??). There are also adjective + verb formulations but you must be careful since they also carry the sense of being eager. I think Aristophanes makes use of words meaning to sweat in this context as well as verbs like χλιαίνω which are often transitive but can be warmed by external sources such as a fever. There is also διαίθομαι but I don't think this is literary so I can't be sure of the register here.

It would be worth checking medical treatises, you learn lots of interesting stuff about urine etc too.
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Re: how do you say "I'm hot/cold" in Anc Greek

Postby daivid » Sat Aug 03, 2013 4:31 pm

Thanks for all your replies. I look forward to trying them out though it will be a little time before I get a reason to use the ones for cold
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