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Minor + dative ?

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Minor + dative ?

Postby pmda » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:53 pm

Minari + dat? / Ab?

Orberg in LLPSI Cap 32 has:

Hoc dominus mihi minari solebat.

He give minor, minari, minatus sum (threaten) as taking dative. L&S don't, so far as I can tell, mention this. They say it takes ablative or accusative.

IT occurs again in Cap 40 when Dido's sister warns her to bear in mind that she needs protection from her enemies:

Nonne tibi in mentem venit qui hostes nos cingant: Gaetuli Numidaeque, gentes invictae, et frater tuus Pygmalion, qui Tyro bellum minatur?

'...and your brother Pygmalion who threatened war against Tyre?

'Tyro' appears to be dataive.
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Re: Minor + dative ?

Postby Qimmik » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:54 pm

L&S under minor:

(β). Alicui aliquid: “crucem minari alicui,” Cic. Tusc. 1, 43, 102.


Alicui indicates a dative complement.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/morph?l=minor&la=la#lexicon
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Re: Minor + dative ?

Postby pmda » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:10 pm

I don't really understand your guidance or L&S. I confess I sometimes am baffled by what the dictionary is saying.... Here are a number of possibly very silly questions....I've highlighted things in bold that I don't understand...I don't know what is meant by 'alicui, alicui, aliquid, with abl.' No where in this account does the word 'dative' or its abbreviation 'dat.' occur. If L&S is saying that 'minor' occurs with the dative of 'aliqui/s' then that doesn't explain why Orberg's examples have datives of proper nouns with minor, minari...etc.... ?? What does 'Transf.' mean...? I'm using the online edition and so am not looking at the explanation of abbreviations...

If there are cirumstances in which 'minor' takes ablative, or acc. or gen. or dative then these circumstances are not clear to me from L&L.... The feeling is rather like coming into a cinema whilst a movie in a foreign language is playing - and near the end ...and trying to figure out what's going on...?

Then we have 'A. In gen. (class.)...' ??

L&S has:

mĭnor , ātus, 1, v. dep. (
I.act. collat. form, v. mino) [minae], to jut forth, project.
I. Lit. (only poet.): “geminique minantur In caelum scopuli,” Verg. A. 1, 162: “saxa minantia caelo,” Sil. 4, 2.—
II. Transf., to threaten, menace one with any thing; constr. alicui, alicui aliquid, with abl., with acc. and inf., or with ne. ??
A. In gen. (class.).
(α). Alicui, Cic. Verr. 2, 4, 66, § 149. —
(β). Alicui aliquid: “crucem minari alicui,” Cic. Tusc. 1, 43, 102.—
(γ). With abl.: “coepit minari interdum ferro,” Sall. C. 23, 3. —
(δ). With acc. and inf.: “ab hac minatus sese abire,” Plaut. As. 3, 3, 14: “dolor se patientiam debilitaturum minatur,” Cic. Tusc. 5, 27, 75.—(ε) With ne: “minor interminorque, nequis, etc.,” Plaut.
Capt. 4, 2, 11 Fleck. —
2. Of inanim. things: “cum domus mea ardore suo deflagrationem Urbi minabatur,” Cic. Planc. 40, 95: “plaustra populo minantur,” Juv. 3, 256: “illa (ornus) usque minatur, et tremefacta comam concusso vertice nutat,” i. e. threatens to fall, gives signs of falling, Verg. A. 2, 628: “nil color caeli minatur, Juv 14, 294: quodcumque minabitur arcus,” Hor. A. P. 350.—
B. In partic., like the Gr. ἀπειλεῖν, to promise boastfully (poet.): “atqui vultus erat multa et praeclara minantis,” Hor. S. 2, 3, 9: “qui magna cum minaris, extricas nihil,” Phaedr. 4, 21, 4.—Hence, mĭnanter , adv., threateningly, with threats, = minaciter: “multa minanter agat,” Ov. A. A. 3, 582.
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Re: Minor + dative ?

Postby Qimmik » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:41 pm

The dictionary entries sometimes indicate the cases of the complements of verbs with the appropriate cases of the Latin words aliquis, "someone", and aliquid "something. Thus, minari alicui aliquid means that the person threated is in the dative case and the threat or the thing threatened is in the accusative case.

Minor in the sense of "threaten" has several alternative complement structures, indicated by "constr. alicui, alicui aliquid, with abl., with acc. and inf., or with ne", each of which is illustrated by one of the citations to Latin works that follow.

The citation "Cic. Tusc. 1, 43, 102" for the alicui aliquid complements is to Cicero's Tusculan Disputations. crucem minari alicui - "to threaten someone with torture (or maybe crucifixion).

"Trans." ("transferred" or something like it) means a non-literal meaning.

L&S uses a large number of abbreviations in order to keep the print volume to a manageable size. These are listed at the beginning of the print volume but unfortunately I don't think they can't be accessed through the on-line version. Most of them are self-explanatory with some experience.

If there are cirumstances in which 'minor' takes ablative, or acc. or gen. or dative then these circumstances are not clear to me from L&L....


The ablative is an alternative to the accusative of the thing threatened.
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Re: Minor + dative ?

Postby pmda » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:51 pm

Quimmik, many thanks for your guidance (and patience.) I have L&S on my iPhone . not sure if that has abbreviations explained either...
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