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Lines from Virgil

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Lines from Virgil

Postby pmda » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:59 pm

Mercury is warning Aeneas to get a move on and leave the shores of Carthage...

'...Iam mare turbari trabibus saevasque videbis
Soon you will see the sea disturbed by ships, the savage

collucere faces, iam fervere litora flammis,
burning torches gathered, soon the shores in flames,
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Re: Lines from Virgil

Postby Qimmik » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:38 pm

The translation is ok; a few minor suggestions:

saevasque videbis collucere faces, you will see savage torches burning everywhere (collucere, not colligere). The con- of collucere is simply intensive here. I would translate it loosely as "everywhere." Also, you might translate the adjective saevas as an adverb: "burning savagely" (or perhaps "fiercely").

iam fervere litora flammis - I'm not sure whether your translation capture the fact that videbis is understood with this infinitive phrase: "soon you will see the shores burning with flames."
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Re: Lines from Virgil

Postby pmda » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:15 pm

collucere faces, iam fervere litora flammis,
burning torches, soon the shores in flames,

....actually Quimmik I think my mistake was to translate collucere twice: once correctly and then a second time incorrectly. It means 'burning' or 'shining' and not 'gathered'...
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Re: Lines from Virgil

Postby Qimmik » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:26 pm

Actually, "shining" is probably better than "burning." The root is lux, "light".
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Re: Lines from Virgil

Postby adrianus » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:07 pm

I like "surely" or "no doubt" for jam here.
Certim pro jam hîc amo.

"If Dawn touches you tarrying in these lands [si te his attigerit terris Aurora morantem]
Then surely you'll see the sea disturbed by ships*
and fearsome torches shining, surely the shores burning in flames."

*Enemy ships or, at a stretch, the wreakage of his own?
*Navibus hostilibus vel, ut fieri potest, suis propriis conflagratis?
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Lines from Virgil

Postby pmda » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:56 pm

Gratias tibi ago, Adriane.
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Re: Lines from Virgil

Postby Qimmik » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:07 pm

Iam is generally temporal. Here's what L&S says:

3. Representing as present an impending event, now, already, presently (mostly poet.): “jam te premet nox,” Hor. C. 1, 4, 16: “jam veniet mors, jam subrepet iners aetas,” Tib. 1, 1, 70: “jam mare turbari trabibus videbis, jam fervere litora flammis,” Verg. A. 4, 566; 6, 676: “alius Latio jam partus Achilles,” id. ib. 6, 89: “hic magnae jam locus urbis erit,” Tib. 2, 5, 55.—


http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3Djam

But "surely" or "certainly" might do here.
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Re: Lines from Virgil

Postby adrianus » Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:45 pm

L&S say also this:
Et dicunt hoc:
L&S, http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0059%3Aentry%3Djam, wrote:II. In other relations.
A. To denote that something will certainly, properly, or easily occur, under certain circumstances.
1. In a conclusion, to emphasize its relation to the condition, then surely, then: “si cogites, remittas jam me onerare injuriis,” Ter. And. 5, 1, 6: si quis voluerit animi sui notionem evolvere, jam se ipse doceat, eum virum bonum esse, Cic. Off. 3, 19, 76: “si hoc dixissem, jam mihi consuli jure optimo senatus vim intulisset,” id. Cat. 1, 8, 21; id. Leg. 1, 12, 34; id. Brut. 17, 68: “si jubeat eo dirigi, jam in portu fore omnem classem,” Liv. 29, 27, 8.—


Lewis says this, too:
Et dicit hoc Lewis (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... try%3Diam1):
L&S wrote:II.II. Of assurance, in a conclusion, now, then surely, then, at once, no doubt: si cogites, remittas iam me onerare iniuriis, T.: si iubeat eo dirigi, iam in portu fore classem, L.: iam hoc scitis: quae cum ita sint, ego iam hinc praedico, L.—In transitions, now, moreover, again, once more, then, besides: iam de artificiis . . . haec fere accepimus: iam illud senatus consultum, quod, etc.: at enim iam dicetis virtutem non posse constitui, si, etc. —In enumerations, besides, too: et aures . . . itemque nares . . . iam gustatus . . . tactus autem.— Repeated: iam . . . iam, at one time . . . at another, now . . . now, at this time . . . at that, once . . . again: Qui iam contento, iam laxo fune laborat, H.: iam secundae, iam adversae res, L.—For emphasis, now, precisely, indeed: quem iam cur Peripateticum appellem, nescio: cetera iam fabulosa, Ta.—With et: et iam, and indeed, and in fact: et iam artifex, ut ita dicam, stilus: et orare et iam liberius accusare.—Rarely with ergo: iam ergo aliquis Condemnavit, in very truth.—After non modo . . . sed, now, even, I may say: non cum senatu modo, sed iam cum diis bellum gerere, L. —In climax, now, even, indeed, really: iam in opere quis par Romano miles? L.: iam illa perfugia minime sunt audienda.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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