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miserere

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miserere

Postby pmda » Sat Jun 01, 2013 7:44 pm

In Orberg LLPSI he has Dido imploring Aeneas to stay in Karthage (Orberg's marginal notes are inserted in square brackets [ ]):

'...Ego per has lacrimas, per dextram tuam, per conubium nostrum te oro: si quid bene de te merui [bene merere de aliquo = bene facere alicui], aut si tibi dulce fuit quidquam meum, miserere [misereri (alicuius) = miserari (aliquem)] mei et muta istam mentem!

Three questions:


1) ...si quid bene de te merui [bene merere de aliquo = bene facere alicui]

'...if I deserve better ....'?


2) ...aut si tibi dulce fuit quidquam meum...


...or if anything of mine done sweetly / good for you....'?


3) ...,miserere mei et muta istam mentem..

...take pity on my (mind?) and change that (your) mind...?


Now: miserere is (if his explanation in square brackets is to be followed)

a) the imperative of the passive form of :

misereo, miserere, miserui, miseritus ?

...meaning '...take pity ...!'

but then he explains the meaning as follows: misereri (alicuius) = miserari (aliquem). Trying to understand this explanation I did some digging....

'miserari' is

b) the passive infinitive of:

misero, miserare, miseravi, miseratus

c) the infinitive of the deponent:

miseror, miserari, miseratus sum

or, according to Whitakkers words....


d) miser.ere PRES PASSIVE SUB 2 S

of: misero, miserare, miseravi, miseratus V [XXXCO]

e) miser.ere V 2 1 PRES PASSIVE IND 2 S

misereo, miserere, miserui, miseritus V [XXXBO]

or

misereo, miserere, miserui, misertus V [DXXCO] Late


or

f) SUB 2 S

of: miseror, miserari, miseratus sum V DEP [XXXDO]

or

g) IND 2 S

misereor, misereri, miseritus sum V DEP [XXXBO]

or

misereor, misereri, misertus sum V DEP [DXXCO]

At which point I'm - er - a little confused....

There appear to be more forms of miser- meaning take pity than I've had hot dinners....
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Re: miserere

Postby Qimmik » Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:27 pm

si quid bene de te merui -- "if I have done anything good for you"

aut si tibi dulce fuit quidquam meum -- "or if anything of mine was sweet to you," "if anything of mine pleased you," more loosely, "if you took pleasure in anything I offered you"

miserere mei et muta istam mentem -- miserere is the 2d person sing. imperative of misereor, a second conjugation deponent which takes a genitive complement. mei is the genitive of ego.
"take pity on me"

misereri (alicuius) = miserari (aliquem) He's pointing out that misereor takes a genitive complement, not an accusative, unlike miseror, which is a first conjugation deponent with a similar meaning, but which takes an accusative complement.

"muta istam mentem" -- change that idea/plan/intention of yours [istam]. See Lewis & Short mens II.C
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Re: miserere

Postby radagasty » Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:38 pm

pmda wrote:1) ...si quid bene de te merui [bene merere de aliquo = bene facere alicui]
'...if I deserve better ....'?

Literally, 'if I deserve anything well of you', or, better, 'if I deserve any good by you'.

2) ...aut si tibi dulce fuit quidquam meum...
...or if anything of mine done sweetly / good for you....'?

In other words, 'or if you have loved anything about me'.

3) ..., miserere mei et muta istam mentem..
...take pity on my (mind?) and change that (your) mind...?


Wow! I'm afraid I don't have the patience to work through that laundry list of forms you cite, but, to cut a long story short: 'pity me and change your mind'.

Miserere is an imperative, of the deponent misereor, 'to have pity', regularly taking its object in the genitive (or later dative). Thus, miserere mei is simply 'pity me' or 'have mercy on me'.
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Re: miserere

Postby pmda » Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:17 am

Guys

Thank you so much. Very clear.

Paul
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Re: miserere

Postby pmda » Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:10 am

text deleted
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Re: miserere

Postby pmda » Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:12 pm

Am I right in saying that there are four forms of miser- (or active and deponent versions of two) all of which mean exactly the same thing?

misero, miserare, miseravi, miseratus (i)
miseror, miserari, miseratus sum (dep)(i) + ac: = miser esse ob (alicuius malam fortunam)

misereo, miserere, miserui, miseritum (ii)
misereor, misereri, miseritus sum (dep) (ii) + gen [miserere mei/...mihi]

If so I'm not clear on what object form misero and misereo takes...?
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Re: miserere

Postby Qimmik » Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:09 pm

miseror + acc., 'pity' or 'deplore', is a deponent. (The active form misero is archaic or pre-classical.) It takes an accusative complement of the person pitied or thing deplored.

http://perseus.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/getobject.pl?c.11:1855.lewisandshort

misereor + gen., 'pity', is also a deponent. It takes a genitive complement of the person pitied. Aeneas miseretur Elissae.The active form miseret can be used impersonally, with an accusative complement of the person who pities and a genitive complement of the pitied person. Aenean miseret Elissae.

http://perseus.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/getobject.pl?c.11:1840.lewisandshort
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