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Morning Devotion

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Morning Devotion

Postby Σαῦλος » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:17 pm

Help me out! Does this look right?

ἡ Πρωϊνή Λειτουργία
Morning Devotion

Ὁ Θεός Πατήρ ἡμῶν, δωρεὰ τῆς χάριτος σοῦ θεοῦ πᾶσα ἡμέρα
God, our Father, each day is a gift of your grace.
καινοί οἱ ἔλεοι σοῦ καθʼ ἡμέραν
Your mercies are new every morning.
ὁδήγησον τὸ περιπατεῖν ἡμῶν ἐν τῷ φωτί τοῦ Λογοῦ σοῦ.
Guide our steps by the light of your Word.
ῥῦσαι ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ κακίας καὶ πονηρίας
Shield us from harm and keep us from evil.
κρεῖττον γάρ ἐστιν ἀγάπη σοῦ ἤ ζωή.
Better than life is your love.
δίδου ἡμῖν χαρᾶν ἐν τῇ καρδίᾳ ἡμῶν καὶ ἔπαινον ἐν τῷ στόματι ἡμῶν.

εγω,
Σαῦλος
I will babble until I talk. ετι λαλαγω...
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Re: Morning Devotion

Postby Σαῦλος » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:31 pm

A couple of notes:

This is the beginning part of "Morning Devotion" taken from: Christian Worship: A Lutheran Hymnal pg. 152.

Σαῦλος wrote:καινοί οἱ ἔλεοι σοῦ καθʼ ἡμέραν

Or… κατὰ τὸ πρωὶ Or... το πρωι πρωι (LXX Ex 16:21) ????

Σαῦλος wrote:ὁδήγησον τὸ περιπατεῖν ἡμῶν ἐν τῷ φωτί τοῦ Λογοῦ σοῦ.

Or… ὑπο φωτός in order to distinguish it from the sense of “in the dark.”

Σαῦλος wrote:ῥῦσαι

According to Liddell, “generally, to shield, guard, protect, of guardian gods, chiefs, etc.”

Σαῦλος wrote:ῥῦσαι ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ

Or… εστη θυρεον ημων απο...

Σαῦλος wrote:ῥῦσαι ἡμᾶς ἀπὸ κακίας

LN – κακία b, ας f: a state involving difficult and distressing circumstances

Σαῦλος wrote:ὁδήγησον τὸ περιπατεῖν ἡμῶν ἐν τῷ φωτί τοῦ Λογοῦ σοῦ.

The words for "steps" seemed so obscure. Maybe "το περιπατειν̈́" is just as obscure, in form.
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Re: Morning Devotion

Postby Markos » Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:33 pm

Does this look right?


πάνυ γε, ὦ ἄριστε Σαῦλε! πάντα γὰρ καλῶς ἔγραψας.
I am writing in Ancient Greek not because I know Greek well, but because I hope that it will improve my fluency in reading. I got the idea for this from Adrianus over on the Latin forum here at Textkit.
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Re: Morning Devotion

Postby Σαῦλος » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:45 am

I caught one mistake...
δωρεὰ τῆς χάριτος σοῦ θεοῦ
gift of your grace
Cut θεου.
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Re: Morning Devotion

Postby Σαῦλος » Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:20 pm

Let's make a deal. You help me with this prayer, and I'll pray for you to be helped. :D

Εὐχαριστῶ σοι, Πάτερ μου ὁ ἐποὐράνιος, διὰ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, υἱοῦ ἀγαπητοῦ σου,
I thank you, my heavenly Father, through Jesus Christ, your dear Son,

ὅτι ταύτῃ τῇ νυκτὶ με πεφύλαχας :?: ἀπὸ παντῶν τῶν κακῶν καὶ κινδύνων.
that you have kept me this night from all harm and danger.

τήρει με καὶ ταύτῃ τῇ ἡμέρᾳ ἀπὸ ἁμαρτίας και παντός πονηροῦ :?:
Keep me this day also from sin and every evil,

ὥστε εὐάρεστον σοι εἴναι το παν ἔργων
:?: μου καὶ τὸν βίον μου.
that all my doings and life may please you.

ἐν χέρσιν σου τιθημι τὸ σῶμα μου και τὴν ψυχήν μου καὶ πάντα.
Into your hands I commend my body and soul and all things.

ἔστω μετʼ ἐμοῦ ὁ :?: ἅγιος ἄγγελος σου
Let your holy angel be with me,

ἵνα μη ἐχῃ ἐξουσίαν κατʼ ἐμοῦ ὁ πονηρός ἐχθρος.
that the wicked foe may have no power over me. Amen.

ἡ πρωϊνή προσευχὴ τοῦ Μαρτινοῦ Λυττήρου.
MORNING PRAYER by Martin Luther
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Re: Morning Devotion

Postby Markos » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:29 pm

χαίροις σύ, ὦ ἄριστε Σαῦλε!

Let's make a deal. You help me with this prayer, and I'll pray for you to be helped.


πάνυ γε!

...τοῦ Μαρτινοῦ Λυττήρου.


γράφοιμι δὴ τὸ...τοῦ Μαρτίνου Λύθηρος.

καλῶς. νῦν δέ σε δεῖ προσεύχεσθαι ἵνα μοι βοηθῇ ὁ Θεός! :mrgreen:
I am writing in Ancient Greek not because I know Greek well, but because I hope that it will improve my fluency in reading. I got the idea for this from Adrianus over on the Latin forum here at Textkit.
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Re: Morning Devotion

Postby persequor » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:37 pm

Ευγε, ευγε, ω Σαυλε! Συ δε ισχυεις προγεγραμμενον πεμπειν εν Word, Open Office, η PDF?

Εχω χαριν σοι,
Δεβένιος
Carpe diem!--¡Aprovecha el día presente!--Seize the day!
---Poēta Rōmānus Horātius, Carmina (Odes), a.C. XXIII/DCCXXXI A.U.C.
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Re: Morning Devotion

Postby persequor » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:39 pm

Περσεκυωρ ειμι εν τη σελιδα τη ταυτην, και ονομα μοι Δεβἐνιος εν Β-Γρεεκ. :oops:
Carpe diem!--¡Aprovecha el día presente!--Seize the day!
---Poēta Rōmānus Horātius, Carmina (Odes), a.C. XXIII/DCCXXXI A.U.C.
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Re: Morning Devotion

Postby Σαῦλος » Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:07 am

Περσεκυωρ Δεβενιε,

συγγνωμην εχε. ου καταλαμβανω τελεως. θελεις με πεμψαι σοι τί;

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Re: Morning Devotion

Postby persequor » Tue Feb 05, 2013 7:02 pm

χαιρω λαμβανειν παντα οτι θελεις πεμπειν, ω φιλε.
Carpe diem!--¡Aprovecha el día presente!--Seize the day!
---Poēta Rōmānus Horātius, Carmina (Odes), a.C. XXIII/DCCXXXI A.U.C.
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Re: Morning Devotion

Postby Markos » Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:11 pm

χαίρετε, φίλοι!

οὐκ μὲν οἶδα τί θέλετε πέμπειν ἀλλήλοις. ἐγὼ δὲ πέμπω ὑμῖν ἀσπασμὸν ἐν τοῦ Κυρίου.

ὅ τι ὑμεῖς προσεὐχεσθε, γένοιτο ἐκ Θεοῦ!

ἔρρωσθε!
I am writing in Ancient Greek not because I know Greek well, but because I hope that it will improve my fluency in reading. I got the idea for this from Adrianus over on the Latin forum here at Textkit.
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Help "εγω _?_ εμε"

Postby Σαῦλος » Wed May 22, 2013 1:33 pm

I found Luther’s Morning Prayer translated into Greek, from 1577 (Selnecker). I think this is Koine Greek (any opinions on that????). It seems that they were using Greek as an academic language. I have another edition that is in German, Latin, Greek, and HEBREW!

Here's my problem. I decyphered the running miniscule, except for one word. It’s seen in the image here. The phrase is also underlined in my transcription below.
Image

Εὐχαριστῶ σοι ὦ Θεός πάτερ οὐράνιὲ, διὰ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ τοῦ υἱοῦ σου ἀγαπητοῦ, ὅτι ἐμὲ ἐν ταύτῃ τῇ νυκτί ἐκ πάντων κινδύνων, συμφορῶν καὶ κακῶν διασώζων διεφύλαξας. Δέομαί σου, ἵνα καὶ σήμερον ἀπὸ τῶν ἀμαρτιῶν, καὶ τῶν ἄλλων κακῶν διατηρῆς με, καὶ πᾶσαι αἱ πράξεις μου, καὶ ὅλος ὁ βίος μου εὐάρεστός σοι γίνηται. ἐγῶ ?? ἐμὲ, καὶ τὸ σῶμά μου, καὶ τὴν ψυχὴν, καὶ τὰ πάντα ἐμοῦ εἰς τὰς χεῖράς σου παρατίθημι. ἄγγελός σου ὁ ἅγιος μετ̀ ἐμοῦ ἔστω, ὥστε ὁ πονηρὸς ἐχθρὸς ἐν ἐμοὶ οὐκ ἔχειν οὐδέν· ἀμήν.
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Re: Morning Devotion

Postby Pros » Wed May 22, 2013 11:21 pm

I believe after reading an online English translation of this prayer that the word is simply "γὰρ".
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Re: Morning Devotion

Postby Σαῦλος » Thu May 23, 2013 6:54 am

A friend who studied minuscule writing agrees. He said it's a standard way of writing γαρ. Another friend looked at the Hebrew, Latin, and German parallel translations in a similar text, and found ki, quia, and denn. So, γαρ it must be. Thanks.
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Re: Morning Devotion

Postby Markos » Thu May 23, 2013 4:00 pm

I found Luther’s Morning Prayer translated into Greek, from 1577 (Selnecker). I think this is Koine Greek (any opinions on that????). It seems that they were using Greek as an academic language. I have another edition that is in German, Latin, Greek, and HEBREW!


Yes, this strikes me as basic Koine, with fairly simple syntax and an absence of particles.

One does wonder about Selnecker's motives. It's hard to imagine Lutheranism having much of an audience among Greek speaking Byzantine communities, and there a more Demotic version would be indicated. So I agree with you that it appears Ancient Greek was being composed for the same reason we compose it now, to help learn the language.

I think your version holds up fairly well to Selnecker's. The ἐγὼ γὰρ ἐμέ...is a nice turn of phrase. Jesus could have said: ἐγὼ γὰρ ἐμὲ καὶ τὴν διδασκαλίαν ἡμῖν ἔδωκα.
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Re: Morning Devotion

Postby Σαῦλος » Fri May 24, 2013 9:42 am


Thanks much for giving your opinion on it, Mark.

I would like to know more about WHY they were translating things into Koine. Here's a clue:

    " When, in 1539, Justus Jonas translated the Nuernberg Sermons for Children, he made a third Latin translation of the Small Catechism. He calls it "this my Latin translation, not carefully finished indeed, but nevertheless rendered in good faith." (627.) This Latin text obtained special importance since it was immediately done into English, Polish, and Icelandic. In 1560 Job Magdeburg furnished a fourth Latin version. Concerning the translations into Greek, Hebrew, and other languages see Weimar Edition of Luther's Complete Works (10, 1, 718f.)"
http://bookofconcord.org/historical-9.php



Someday, I'd like to find that reference in Luther's Works and see what Luther said about these translations into Greek. (I tried looking at the online copy yesterday, but couldn't seem to find the right place in Volume 10.) From this webpage's comments, it seems that Latin was the bridge language. The academic language which others could then use to decypher and translate German. Could Koine have been the same? Maybe there were those in the Christian church (as today) who would understand Koine, but not understand either Latin or German.

Some months ago, I had some of my students talking in Koine (via video taped messages) with some students in the Far East. It was a magical experience to see Koine truly be used as a medium of communication. This wasn't a classroom stunt (like what I do all the time) to create a situation in which Koine can be used communicatively. This was actual communication in Koine.

And really, δια τί οὐ; Moslems converse in Arabic. Jews use reconstructed Hebrew. Catholic clergy still converse in Latin. Why not Ancient Greek?

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Re: Morning Devotion

Postby Σαῦλος » Thu May 30, 2013 1:56 pm

There are two words in this sentence that I don't understand...

    Εὐχαριστῶ σοι ὦ Θεός πάτερ οὐράνιὲ, διὰ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ τοῦ υἱοῦ σου ἀγαπητοῦ, ὅτι ἐμὲ ἐν ταύτῃ τῇ νυκτί ἐκ πάντων κινδύνων, συμφορῶν καὶ κακῶν διασώζων διεφύλαξας.

    Ich danke dir, mein himlicher Fater, durch Jesum Christum, deinen lieben Sohn, dass du mich diese Nach vor allem Schaden und Fahr behütet hast.

    Gratias ago tibi, mi Pater coelestis, per Iesum Christum, Filium tuum dilectum, quod me hac nocte ab omnibus incommodis ac periculis conservatum custodieris.

    I thank you, my heavenly Father, through Jesus Christ, your dear Son, that you have kept me this night from all harm and danger.
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Re: Morning Devotion

Postby Σαῦλος » Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:47 am

Σαῦλος wrote:συμφορῶν καὶ κακῶν


συμφορά, Ion. -ή, ἡ, (συμφέρω III), an event, circumstance, chance,

Is it normal for και to be in between a noun and its adjective, when και has the sense of "also?" So this phrase would be "from all dangers and also bad circumstances."

Σαῦλος wrote:διασώζων διεφύλαξας.


δια-σώζω, f. -σώσω, to preserve through a danger,
δια-φῠλάσσω, Att. -ττω, f. ξω, to watch closely, guard carefully

Something like this???
"I thank you that through all dangers and bad circumstances you have preserved me and guarded me carefully" (Attendant Circumstance)

[/size]
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Re: Morning Devotion

Postby persequor » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:17 pm

χαιρετε οι φιλοι!

που ευρισκω τον βιβλον του Σελνεκερ online?

A free version, hopefully... :D
Carpe diem!--¡Aprovecha el día presente!--Seize the day!
---Poēta Rōmānus Horātius, Carmina (Odes), a.C. XXIII/DCCXXXI A.U.C.
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