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Lingua Latina for beginners?

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Lingua Latina for beginners?

Postby Paco » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:22 am

Is Lingua Latina per se Illustrata written solely in Latin? Is it suitable for beginner's studies? Looking at the preview at Amazon, I could hardly see an English word. Though I could guess the meanings of the first chapters (because of the common roots), it is not easy then on.

I am thinking about using Lingua Latina and Wheelock together, most probably with Lingua Latina being the basis.

Thank you.
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Re: Lingua Latina for beginners?

Postby dlb » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:26 am

I don't believe that there is an English version of LL.

"I am thinking about using Lingua Latina and Wheelock together, most probably with Lingua Latina being the basis."
You can't go wrong here.
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Observito Quam Educatio Melius Est.
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Re: Lingua Latina for beginners?

Postby Paco » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:30 pm

Thank you.

I am thinking if Lingua Latina can be used as the first course for self-studies. I thought I was going to start out with it, and use Wheelock afterwards to supplement the grammar.
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Re: Lingua Latina for beginners?

Postby Grochojad » Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:00 pm

Paco wrote:Thank you.

I am thinking if Lingua Latina can be used as the first course for self-studies. I thought I was going to start out with it, and use Wheelock afterwards to supplement the grammar.


If I were you I'd do the exact opposite. Do Wheelock to get the grasp of grammar and after that consolidate it with LL.
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Re: Lingua Latina for beginners?

Postby dlb » Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:49 pm

Grochojad wrote:If I were you I'd do the exact opposite. Do Wheelock to get the grasp of grammar and after that consolidate it with LL.


I'll second that!
Deus me ducet, non ratio.
Observito Quam Educatio Melius Est.
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Re: Lingua Latina for beginners?

Postby Ste11aeres » Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:59 pm

dlb wrote:
Grochojad wrote:If I were you I'd do the exact opposite. Do Wheelock to get the grasp of grammar and after that consolidate it with LL.


I'll second that!


I'm not sure why you think that. I used Lingua Latina first, then other books, and that order worked beautifully for me.
To be more exact, I used Lingua Latina up to a certain point, then other works, then back to Lingua latina.
You could use both simultaneously.
Maybe it depends on each person's learning style. (I have Aspergers, so maybe my brain works differently.)
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Re: Lingua Latina for beginners?

Postby Ste11aeres » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:21 pm

Paco wrote:
I am thinking about using Lingua Latina and Wheelock together, most probably with Lingua Latina being the basis.

Thank you.


That's the best way to learn latin. Lingua Latina combined with something else.

Though some people would recommend something other than Wheelock. There's a nice book called 'Liturgical Latin' that I much prefer to Wheelock. Someone else on this site said Henle's better than Wheelock. The best grammar book I found was in a library. I think it was just called Latin Grammar. Can't remember the author.

I definitely would use Lingua Latina, regardless of what it's paired with.
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Re: Lingua Latina for beginners?

Postby dlb » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:30 pm

Ste11aeres wrote:
dlb wrote:
I'll second that!


I'm not sure why you think that. I used Lingua Latina first, then other books, and that order worked beautifully for me.
To be more exact, I used Lingua Latina up to a certain point, then other works, then back to Lingua latina.
You could use both simultaneously.
Maybe it depends on each person's learning style. (I have Aspergers, so maybe my brain works differently.)

Learning a language w/o learning the grammar first is like learning to play chords on a guitar w/o understanding what notes comprise them. I love grammar & details.
Deus me ducet, non ratio.
Observito Quam Educatio Melius Est.
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Re: Lingua Latina for beginners?

Postby scotistic » Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:43 pm

I was the one who said Henle is better than Wheelock. I think using Lingua Latina and Henle together is a great idea. Henle has four main volumes - it was originally a four-year high school course -; the first one uses mostly vocabulary from Ceasar and is designed to lead directly to reading Ceasar, and the second volume is centered around reading Ceasar himself. (The third and fourth volumes focus on Cicero and Virgil.) A fifth volume, "Latin Grammar", is a self-standing short but thorough Latin grammar full of examples taken from Ceasar's text and designed to be used with all the other volumes. All four volumes, as I recall, have some Christian Latin to supplement the mostly classical content.

Henle is excellent for his thoroughness and because, like Orberg and unlike Wheelock, takes it for granted that proficiency is impossible without lots and lots of reading. His focus on mastering theoretical grammar before reading large chunks makes him a superb supplement to Orberg. The only complaint I can imagine some people having is that the Henle course was designed for Catholic high schools, so sometimes the tone is geared towards adolescents, and always the Catholic perspective is taken for granted. Henle intersperses little moral and religious and political and historical lessons in between the Latin readings. This wasn't a problem for me at all, but perhaps some people might prefer Wheelock's dull neutrality.
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Re: Lingua Latina for beginners?

Postby Paco » Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:38 am

Thank you everyone. Your enthusiasm and help are useful and encouraging.

Ste11aeres wrote:I'm not sure why you think that. I used Lingua Latina first, then other books, and that order worked beautifully for me.
To be more exact, I used Lingua Latina up to a certain point, then other works, then back to Lingua latina.
You could use both simultaneously.
Maybe it depends on each person's learning style. (I have Aspergers, so maybe my brain works differently.)

What languages did you know at the time you started learning Latin with Lingua Latina? Do you think Lingua Latina could be understood without extra aids? Will I need to switch between the book and a dictionary frequently (which I prefer not to do)?

The only thing I am worried about is that Lingua Latina is written entirely in Latin, without any translation. I have read the preview in Amazon. The first chapters are not difficult; I am able to figure out what they mean. But I am not sure what is inside the later chapters.

I agree it mainly depends on individual style. I am absolutely fine to start a language with grammar, but I find that, if possible, getting to the language itself first is more efficacious and enjoyable.

dlb wrote:Learning a language w/o learning the grammar first is like learning to play chords on a guitar w/o understanding what notes comprise them. I love grammar & details.

I will focus on grammar sometime for certain. But if it is possible, I would like to postpone it.

I am not sure about Latin, but for German (which is no doubt less complex) I found diving into the language first (with Assimil) and working on the grammar later was more effective. I once thought the first step in language learning must be grammar, which was what I did with my first foreign language, English. But, again, this might only be true for the less complex languages. I have no experience in highly inflectional language like Latin and Ancient Greek.

Ste11aeres wrote:Though some people would recommend something other than Wheelock. There's a nice book called 'Liturgical Latin' that I much prefer to Wheelock. Someone else on this site said Henle's better than Wheelock. The best grammar book I found was in a library. I think it was just called Latin Grammar. Can't remember the author.

scotistic wrote:Henle is excellent for his thoroughness and because, like Orberg and unlike Wheelock, takes it for granted that proficiency is impossible without lots and lots of reading. His focus on mastering theoretical grammar before reading large chunks makes him a superb supplement to Orberg.

I have searched for Liturgical Latin, but everything which shows up is about religion and Ecclesiastical Latin.

scotistic's description "tempts" me. I will have a look at them, Ceasar, Cicero and Virgil... which might be used as readers as well. Is there accompanying audio?

As far as I know, Orberg's book will go less into the grammar matter (for it advocates the natural method), therefore, though I am not sure which book exactly I will need to supplement Lingua Latina, I know it will be of the sort of grammatically-oriented teaching manual or didactic grammar, preferably with audio.

(The reason I started a thread asking about TYS and Wheelock was that they fulfill the two criteria: grammatically-oriented and with audio.)
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Re: Lingua Latina for beginners?

Postby Scribo » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:38 pm

Well if you search around the fora you'll find a swathe of diverse opinions on this topic. If TYS = Teach Yourself then actually I do own that book, or at least an older. It was given to me years and years ago, I never did more than a few chapters but I can say it seemed to introduce grammar and had a continuous story, though the vocabulary was highly mixed. Erm I think other people have commented that the audio was nice, never heard it. I like Orberg's despite the occassional Germanic (Danish? Swedish? the vowells...) colouring. It has a nice didactic tone.

Lingua Latina is a great book but no one textbook will give you all you need and there are several mentioned throughout textkit and, indeed, even a few directly supported. If you already own LL then that's great since you can use it as a reader and as a way to cement grammar. This is an inductive method. You might want to try and supplement it with something more exegetical and grammar based so you can trouble shoot grammatical and syntactical problems later.

I personally like Wheelock's, others don't. Several of the older textbooks on Textkit also provide a firm foundation in grammar etc, as does Moreland and Fleischer's "Intensive Latin" and a hoard of others, just pick one and finish it and then attack texts.
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Re: Lingua Latina for beginners?

Postby Nesrad » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:42 pm

Here's my opinion:
LLPSI is good only if you have a teacher. If you're studying alone, try another textbook like Wheelock.
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Re: Lingua Latina for beginners?

Postby scotistic » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:54 am

Nesrad,

Your opinion contradicts the experience of many people here, including myself. I've never had a Latin teacher or attended a single Latin class, but I say that Lingua Latina helped me enormously and is better than all the other available courses. I agree, as I've said before, that the self-learner will want to supplement it with some formal grammar study.
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