Textkit Logo

Plb. 6.5.2

Here's where you can discuss all things Ancient Greek. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get translation help and more!

Plb. 6.5.2

Postby pster » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:51 am

διόπερ ὅσον ἀνήκειν ὑπολαμβάνομεν αὐτοῦ πρὸς τὴν πραγματικὴν ἱστορίαν καὶ τὴν κοινὴν ἐπίνοιαν, τοῦτο πειρασόμεθα κεφαλαιωδῶς διελθεῖν:

My translation:

On acount of which, insofar as we understand it to reach practical history and common understanding, we will attempt to go through it in a summary fashion.

Question:

Am I right in understanding the genitive here: ὑπολαμβάνομεν - αὐτοῦ - ἀνήκειν = we understand it to reach?

I would feel more comfortable if αὐτοῦ were accusative.

Thanks in advance
User avatar
pster
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1069
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:05 am

Re: Plb. 6.5.2

Postby Qimmik » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:07 pm

I think αὐτοῦ depends on ὅσον: ". . . as much of it as . . ." In other words, partitive genitive. The antecedent of αὐτοῦ is ὁ περὶ τῆς κατὰ φύσιν μεταβολῆς τῶν πολιτειῶν εἰς ἀλλήλας λόγος from the preceding sentence.

"Therefore, as much of it as we consider to be relevant to (ἀνήκειν) practical history and common understanding, [so much of it] we will attempt to go through in a summary fashion."

I would loosely and more idiomatically translate it something like this: "Therefore, to the extent we consider it relevant to practical history and common understanding, we will attempt to discuss it in a summary fashion."

The revised Loeb translates it this way: "I therefore will attempt to give a short summary of the theory, as far as I consider it to apply to the actual history of the facts and to appeal to the common intelligence of mankind."
Qimmik
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1422
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:15 pm

Re: Plb. 6.5.2

Postby pster » Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:21 pm

"I think αὐτοῦ depends on ὅσον."

That's plausible and interesting. I hadn't considered that. However, if that is so, I would resist both of the translations you provide because they make ὅσον adverbial. If αὐτοῦ depends on ὅσον then ὅσον must be adjectival/substantial.

I'm hyper pedantic about ὅσον. If you look down the forum you will see a number of lengthy threads where I grappled with ὅσον for what must have been a month. In fact, I never actually finished reporting back my findings, but it is still on the to do list!

Thanks for the help!
User avatar
pster
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1069
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:05 am

Re: Plb. 6.5.2

Postby Qimmik » Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:50 pm

However, if that is so, I would resist both of the translations you provide because they make ὅσον adverbial. If αὐτοῦ depends on ὅσον then ὅσον must be adjectival/substantial.


Your first translation does the same thing--"insofar as." It means "as much as." "As much of the theory of governmental evolution as pertains to . . . , so much [τὅσον is understood (disregard breathing)] I will go through. . . ." In Greek it's an adjective/substantive. How would you translate it into fluent English to avoid making it adverbial?
Qimmik
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1422
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:15 pm

Re: Plb. 6.5.2

Postby pster » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:21 pm

No, I think my translation is adverbial.

Here is a substantial use:

As much damage as she has caused to the furniture, that's how much I want from the insurance company.

Here is an adverbial use:

In so far as she behaved recklessly, she deserves to be hounded by the lawyers.
User avatar
pster
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1069
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:05 am

Re: Plb. 6.5.2

Postby pster » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:23 pm

Sorry. Yes, you are right, my translation was adverbial, because I thought it was an adverbial instance. But you corrected me and made me see that it is substantial/adjectival. So, we need a substantial/adjectival translation.
User avatar
pster
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1069
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:05 am

Re: Plb. 6.5.2

Postby pster » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:24 pm

I liked your very first pass at it. Perfect.
User avatar
pster
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1069
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:05 am


Return to Learning Greek

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot], Shenoute and 56 guests