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Familia Romana c. XXXII

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Familia Romana c. XXXII

Postby mjdubroy » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:09 pm

I am having trouble understanding the following:

Sed quoniam omnes me quasi servum scelestum contemnitis, narrabo vobis breviter quomodo amicum e servitute redemerim atque ipse ob eam gratiam servus factus sim:

In the first clause I don't understand how omnes fits in. It can't be nominative because contemnitis is 2nd person, and it can't be accusative because there are another accusative words but are singular so I'm stuck.

In the second clause I don't understand servus. It should be nominative but sim is 1st person.


Cum homo liber Athenis viverem,

How does homo liber (as nominative) fit with viverem (1st person)?
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Re: Familia Romana c. XXXII

Postby adrianus » Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:15 am

vos omnes nominativo casu, quo vos vocabulum subauditum est vel in verbo continetur
ego servus factus sim
"homo liber", in appositione est haec collocatio
= "as a free man"
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Familia Romana c. XXXII

Postby mjdubroy » Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:57 pm

I'm not sure I completely understanding your reply, but does this make sense:
So normally of course the verb implies the subject and sometimes there is a noun for that subject and sometimes not; besides other pronoun words, like Ego, etc, there is usually a noun for the subject when the verb is in the 3rd person. But here does Omnes, being an adjective, qualifies the "you" that is implied in the verb contemnitis? I think that makes sense of it.

One reason why I've enjoyed, for the most part, going through Familia Romana to learn to read Latin is because it gives you a chance to practice seeing the constructions in action, so to speak, but I don't think I've seen this one nor the appositive that you pointed out (which is now quite clear, hindsight being 20/20).

I still don't quite understand "Servus" in "servus factus sim." This doesn't seem to be another appositive, nor is it an adj, nor a predicate nominative for that matter, but it seems to be a direct object. Hence, I would have expected "servum."
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Re: Familia Romana c. XXXII

Postby adrianus » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:21 pm

mjdubroy wrote:But here does Omnes, being an adjective, qualifies the "you" that is implied in the verb contemnitis?
Ita.
Yes.

mjdubroy wrote:I still don't quite understand "Servus" in "servus factus sim." This doesn't seem to be another appositive, nor is it an adj, nor a predicate nominative for that matter, but it seems to be a direct object. Hence, I would have expected "servum."


"Servus factus est" sic in sermones anglicos vertitur "He was made a slave" vel "He became a slave"
"Servus factus sum" "I was made a slave" vel "I became a slave".
It is a predicate noun because that's a copulative verb. A predicate noun or adjective has the same case as the subject.
Copulativum est hoc verbum, ergo praedicativum nomen. Nomen praedicativum vel adjectivum eodem casu est quam subjectum.
Vide http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=AG+283
Vide http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=AG+284
Last edited by adrianus on Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Familia Romana c. XXXII

Postby mjdubroy » Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:55 pm

Thank you that is very helpful. Just a little bit unsure how factus sim is a copulative verb since it is simply the passive subjunctive of facio right? Though it certainly makes sense of the sentence when it is understood like that. I thought only Sum, esse, etc. was copulative; what am I missing?
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Re: Familia Romana c. XXXII

Postby adrianus » Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:04 pm

mjdubroy wrote: I thought only Sum, esse, etc. was copulative; what am I missing?

Vide http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=AG+283
+ to be elected as
+ to act as
+ to sit as
et caetera similia
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Familia Romana c. XXXII

Postby mjdubroy » Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:28 pm

Thank you. I appreciate your help with my questions!
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Re: Familia Romana c. XXXII

Postby adrianus » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:56 pm

Libenter. Manus manum lavat.
You're very welcome. We help each other.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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