pster wrote:More Polybius:
...ἐμοὶ δ᾽ ὅτι μὲν ἦν ἐξ ἀρχῆς ἕν τι τῶν ἀναγκαίων καὶ τοῦτο τὸ μέρος τῆς ὅλης προθέσεως, ἐν πολλοῖς οἶμαι δῆλον αὐτὸ πεποιηκέναι...
Here is a pigin translation:
...to me that was from the beginning some one of the things that needed to be done and this part of the whole undertaking, in many places I believe I have made that clear...
Is ἐμοὶ a dative of possession?
If so, what is being possessed?
How can it be outside ὅτι? I've never seen that before.
What is τοῦτο τὸ μέρος τῆς ὅλης προθέσεως doing? It seems to be a noun phrase in parallel with a verb phrase?
So the word order here really has me confused.
2. I am aware that some will wonder why I have deferred until the present occasion my account of the Roman constitution, thus being obliged to interrupt the due course of my narrative. Now, that I have always regarded this account as also one of the essential parts of my whole design, I have, I am sure, made evident in numerous passages and chiefly at the beginning and in the introduction to my history, where I said2 that the best and most valuable result I aim at is that readers of my work may gain a knowledge how it was and by virtue of what peculiar political institutions that in less than fifty-three years nearly the whole world was overcome and fell under the single dominion of Rome, a thing the like of which had never happened before.
2. Οὐκ ἀγνοῶ μὲν οὖν διότι τινὲς διαπορήσουσι πῶς ἀφέμενοι τοῦ συνάπτειν καὶ προστιθέναι τὸ συνεχὲς τῆς διηγήσεως, εἰς τοῦτον ἀπεθέμεθα τὸν καιρὸν τὸν ὑπὲρ τῆς προειρημένης πολιτείας ἀπολογισμόν· 2ἐμοὶ δ᾿ ὅτι μὲν ἦν ἐξ ἀρχῆς ἕν τι τῶν ἀναγκαίων καὶ τοῦτο τὸ μέρος τῆς ὅλης προθέσεως, ἐν πολλοῖς οἶμαι 3δῆλον αὐτὸ πεποιηκέναι, μάλιστα δ᾿ ἐν τῇ καταβολῇ καὶ προεκθέσει τῆς ἱστορίας, ἐν ᾗ τοῦτο κάλλιστον ἔφαμεν, ἅμα δ᾿ ὠφελιμώτατον εἶναι τῆς ἡμετέρας ἐπιβολῆς τοῖς ἐντυγχάνουσι τῇ πραγματείᾳ τὸ γνῶναι καὶ μαθεῖν πῶς καὶ τίνι γένει πολιτείας ἐπικρατηθέντα σχεδὸν πάντα τὰ κατὰ τὴν οἰκουμένην ἐν οὐδ᾿ ὅλοις πεντήκοντα καὶ τρισὶν ἔτεσιν ὑπὸ μίαν ἀρχὴν τὴν Ῥωμαίων ἔπεσεν, ὃ πρότερον οὐχ εὑρίσκεται 4γεγονός.
C. S. Bartholomew wrote: The dative ἐμοὶ appears to be unconnected with the syntax of what follows.
ἀκούετ' ἤδη τῆς γραφῆς. “ἐγράψατο
Κύων Κυδαθηναιεὺς Λάβητ' Αἰξωνέα
τὸν τυρὸν ἀδικεῖν ὅτι μόνος κατήσθιεν
τὸν Σικελικόν. τίμημα κλῳὸς σύκινος.”
Listen to the indictment. A dog of Cydathenaea doth hereby charge Labes of Aexonia with having devoured a Sicilian cheese by himself without accomplices. Penalty demanded, a collar of fig-tree wood.
Qimmik wrote:Yes, ἐμοὶ is fronted and is part of the clause introduced by ὅτι. Something like this (tinkering with the order of the clauses): "I believe that I have made it clear in many places, but especially in the introduction and preface of the history, that for me that part of the whole project was from the beginning also one of the necessary topics . . . "
LCL on-line version
I say that you are about to gaze upon the death of Agamemnon.
Speak only of good things, poor girl; put your tongue to sleep.
But there is no divine Healer in attendance on these words.271
No, if it’s really going to happen; but please, somehow, let it not happen!
While you are praying, they are concerned with slaying!
Ἁγαμέμνονός σέ φημ᾿ ἐπόψεσθαι μόρον.
εὔφημον, ὦ τάλαινα, κοίμησον στόμα.
ἀλλ᾿ οὔτι Παιὼν τῷδ᾿ ἐπιστατεῖ λόγῳ.
οὔκ, εἴπερ ἔσται γ᾿· ἀλλὰ μὴ γένοιτό πως.
σὺ μὲν κατεύχῃ, τοῖς δ᾿ ἀποκτείνειν μέλει.
pster wrote:...ἐμοὶ δ᾽ ὅτι μὲν ἦν ἐξ ἀρχῆς ἕν τι τῶν ἀναγκαίων καὶ τοῦτο τὸ μέρος τῆς ὅλης προθέσεως, ἐν πολλοῖς οἶμαι δῆλον αὐτὸ πεποιηκέναι...
How about this possibility?
ἐμοὶ is a dative of agent for the perfect πεποιηκέναι!
And (δ᾽) that (ὅτι) also/even (καὶ) this part of the whole purpose (τὸ μέρος τῆς ὅλης προθέσεως) was from the beginning some one of the things to be done (ἦν ἐξ ἀρχῆς ἕν τι τῶν ἀναγκαίων), in many places (ἐν πολλοῖς) I believe (οἶμαι) that (αὐτὸ) has been made clear (πεποιηκέναι) BY ME (ἐμοὶ).
I left out μὲν for readability.
He actually does beat to death the fact that there will be this detour in the narrative. So putting the dative of agent way out in front for emphasis makes sense.
Users browsing this forum: polemistes, Yahoo [Bot] and 42 guests