Εὕρηκα.
...the Greek is more modern than Attic in its word patterns etc...
Markos: εἰπέ μοι, Θεὰ, περὶ τῆς κακῆς ὀργῆς τοῦ Ἀχιλῆος. (Ἀχιλλεύς ἐστιν ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ Πηλέως.)
Gaza: τὴν ὀργὴν εἰπὲ ἡμῖν ὦ θεὰ τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ Πηλέως τοῦ Ἀχιλλέως τὴν ὀλεθρίαν.
Homer: μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος οὐλομένην.
the Greek is more modern than Attic in its word patterns etc, it has typical problems you see in Katherevousa everywhere, which is a shame.
Homer 4:161: σύν τε μεγάλῳ ἀπέτισαν...
Gaza 4:161: σὺν μεγάλῳ τόκῳ ἀποτίσουσι...
Homer 4:300 ὄφρα...τις...πολεμίζοι
Gaza 4:300: ὅπως...τις...πολεμῇ
Homer 4:334 ὅππότε πύργος Ἀχαιῶν ἄλλος ἐπελθὼν Τρῳων ὁρμήσειε.
Gaza 4:334 πότε ἄλλος πύργος τῶν Ἑλλήνων ἐπελθὼν ὁρμήσειε κατὰ τῶν Τρῳων.
Homer 4:323: τὸ γὰρ γέρας ἐστι γερόντων.
Gaza 4:323 τοῦτο γάρ ἐστι γερόντων τιμή.
...if you're still interested in my opinion...
...Th.G vs the Scholiasts...:
...as for just picking up and reading it depends on how good your Attic is. For beginners who are being trained mainly on Homer I suspect this would be confusing.
I've tried using Attic paraphrases of the Odyssey to teach those who started in Attic...
Homer 6:336: ἔθελον δ’ ἄχει προτραπέσθαι.
“Rather, I wanted to turn myself towards grief.”
Gaza 6:336: ἐβουλόμην δὲ ἐκ τῆς συμβάσης μοι λύπης ἐκ τῆς ἥττης παρατροπήν τινα καὶ παραμυθίαν εὑρεῖν, καῖ εἶξαι τῇ συμφορᾷ, καὶ ἡσυχᾶσαι.
"Rather, I wanted to find a certain distraction and consolation from the pain that came to me from my defeat, and I wanted to yield to the misfortune, and to be still.”
There is another paraphrase attributed to the Byzantine scholar Michael Psellos and printed as an appendix to Scholia in Homeri Iliadem by Bekker. It seems to be more compact, although I am not competent to judge its quality:
http://reader.digitale-sammlungen.de/re ... 15158.html
Homer 10:452: οὐκ ἔτ’ ἔπειτα σὺ πῆμά ποτ’ ἔσσεαι Ἀχαιῶν.
Gaza 10:452: οὐκέτι μετὰ ταῦτα σὺ βλάβος γενήσῃ ποτὲ τοῖς Ἕλλησιν.
Psellos 10:452: οὐκέτι μετὰ ταῦτα σὺ βλάβη ποτὲ γενήσῃ τοῖς Ἕλλησιν.
Homer 10:389: ἢ σαυτὸν θυμὸς ἀνῆκε?
Gaza 10:389: ἢ σε αὐτὸν ἀνὲπεισεν ἡ ψύχή?
Psellos 10:389: ἢ σὲ αύτὸν ἡ ψυχὴ παρέπεισε?
Homer 10:457: φθεγγομένου δ’ ἄρα τοῦ γε κάρη κονίῃσιν ἐμίχθη. (“While he was still speaking, his head was mixed with the earth.”)
Gaza 10:457: τοῦτου δε λαλοῦντος , ἡ κεφαλὴ τοῖς χώμασι συμεμίγη. (“While he was still speaking, his head was mixed together with the dust.”)
Psellos 10:457: λαλοῦντος δὴ τοῦτου, ἡ κεφαλὴ τῇ γῇ ἡνώθη. (“While he was still speaking, his head became one with the dust.”
It's a pity that none such paraphrase survives for the Odyssey. It would be something like this:
ἄνδρα μοι εἰπέ, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ
ἐπλανήθη, ἀφ' οῦ τὴν Τροίαν ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἑπόρθησεν:...
With the help of your link, I was able to track it down on google books, through which one can get it printed on demand.
http://books.google.com/books?id=c64xAQ ... &q&f=false
My dream would be to have something like those multi-text parallel Bibles that they make.
How to explain that we have several paraphrases of the Iliad but none of the Odyssey?
An early Demotic version would almost be equivalent to a Koine version.
How about a volume that would have Homer and Gaza AND Psellos and several Modern Greek versions?
An early Demotic version would almost be equivalent to a Koine version.
There's Nikolaos Loukanis 1526 version. http://www.onassislibrary.gr/en/collect ... oh002.html
Actually, the Odyssey has not been appreciated in all its nuances until recent times (Joyce for instance).
Loukanis is perfectly intelligible to me even though I do not read Modern Greek. It appears that Loukanis' book is only available from Europe
I go back and forth on which book is better.
Homer 1:20: παῖδα δ᾽ ἐμοὶ λύσαιτε φίλην, τὰ δ᾽ ἄποινα δέχεσθαι…
Psellos 1:20: τὴν προσφιλῆ δέ μοι θυγατέρα λυτρώσασθε, τὰ δὲ δῶρα δέξασθε...
Gaza: 1:20: ἐμοὶ δὲ ἀπολύσατε τὴν προσφιλῆ θυγατέρα, καὶ τὰ λύτρα δέξασθε...
Loukanis 1:20: τὴν ἐμὴν θυγατέρα, τὴν πολλά μου ποθουμένην, πρὸς ἐμὲ τὴν ἀποδῶτε, τὰ δὲ δῶρα τὰ κομίζω δέξεσθέ τα κατὰ χάριν...
Markos wrote:Homer 1:20: παῖδα δ᾽ ἐμοὶ λύσαιτε φίλην, τὰ δ᾽ ἄποινα δέχεσθαι…
Psellos 1:20: τὴν προσφιλῆ δέ μοι θυγατέρα λυτρώσασθε, τὰ δὲ δῶρα δέξασθε...
Gaza: 1:20: ἐμοὶ δὲ ἀπολύσατε τὴν προσφιλῆ θυγατέρα, καὶ τὰ λύτρα δέξασθε...
Loukanis 1:20: τὴν ἐμὴν θυγατέρα, τὴν πολλά μου ποθουμένην, πρὸς ἐμὲ τὴν ἀποδῶτε, τὰ δὲ δῶρα τὰ κομίζω δέξεσθέ τα κατὰ χάριν...
Filiam autem mihi solvite dilectam, haec vero precia liberationis accipite
filiam unicam, solum patris miseri solatium mihi reddite, accipientes haec pro eius redemptione precia
It's almost an exercise in amplification. It's astonishing how compact Homer is.
The same line in the versio latina:
Filiam autem mihi solvite dilectam, haec vero precia liberationis accipite
Homer 1:20: παῖδα δ᾽ ἐμοὶ λύσαιτε φίλην, τὰ δ᾽ ἄποινα δέχεσθαι…
Alexander Pope 1:20: But, oh! relieve a wretched parent’s pain/And give Chryseis to these arms again/ If mercy fail, yet let my presents move…
Markos 1:20: Leave the girl. Take the cash…
Markos 1:20: Leave the girl. Take the cash…
Homer 13:275: οἴδ' ἀρετὴν οἵός ἐσσι. τί σε χρὴ ταῦτα λέγεσθαι?
Gaza 13:275: οἴδα οἵος ὑπάρχεις κατ' ἀρετὴν. τί σε δεῖ ταῦτα λέγειν?
Psellos 13:275: γινώσκω τὴν ἀρετὴν οἵος εἶ. τί χρή σε περὶ τούτων λέγειν?
γινώσκω/οἴδα and ὑπάρχω/ειμί and χρή/δεῖ are more or less equivalent in meaning?
γινώσκω/οἴδα and ὑπάρχω/ειμί and χρή/δεῖ are more or less equivalent in meaning?
The good news: I have found a paraphrase of the Odyssey!
The author is Manuel Gabalas (1271-1355) and its character is different from either Psellos or Gaza. It is not a literal word-for-word rendering, it skips passages and the adventures of Ulysses are in chronological order and narrated in third person. However it is faithful enough to allow the editors to pinpoint which lines of the Odyssey it paraphrases.
Scribo wrote: Sometimes I use one, sometimes the other. I don't know, I just know when it...sounds wrong. I guess there are some obvious examples, you would not necessarily want to say the man uparkhei not an idiot etc.
chalimac wrote: In doubt about usage or authenticity of style, I would blindly go with Psellos. One reason is that Psellos (1018-1078) is older than Gaza (1400-1475). The other reason is that he was pretty much considered the best Attic stylist in centuries.
I could not access his text because the link you provided wanted me to download a bunch of stuff on my computer.
I'm sort of on a mission to promote him as a pedagogical tool.
I have found a paraphrase of the Odyssey!
http://www.reviradors.com/Gabalas_Parap ... er%207.pdf
http://www.reviradors.com/Gabalas_Parap ... er%208.pdf
Odyssey 1:20-24a: νῆα μὲν ἔνθ 'ἐλθόντες ἐκέλσαμεν, ἐκ δὲ τᾶ μῆλα εἱλόμεθ'. αὐτοὶ δ 'αὖτε παρὰ ῥόον Ὠκεανοῖο ᾔομεν, ὀφρ' ἐς χῶρον ἀφικόμεθα, ὁν φράσε Κίρκη. ἐνθ' ἱερήια μὲν Περιμήδης Εὐρύλοχός τε ἔσχον...
Gabalas 11:20-24a: τὴν μὲν οὖν ναῦν ἐκεῖσε ἐλθόντες προσώμισαν, ἐξείλοντο δὲ τὰ πρόβατα, αὐτοὶ δὲ παρὰ τὸν ροῦν ᾔεσαν τοῦ ὠκεανοῦ ἕως εἰς τὸν τόπον ἀφίκοντο, ὅν ἐφρασεν ἡ Κίρκη τῷ Ὀδυσσεῖ. ἔνθα Περιμήδης μὲν καὶ Ἐυρύλοχος κατέσχον τὰ ἱερεῖα...
p. 464: C'était sans doute un exercice délicat
que de traduire d'une langue littéraire artificielle, celle de l'épopée, dans
une autre langue littéraire presque aussi artificielle, la prose byzantine
classiciste:
He argues that Gabalas, through very discrete changes and omissions, very lightly Christianizes Homer.
The first volume, comprising part 1 and 2, is now available on Lulu.
Iliad with Paraphrase of Theodorus Gaza (I and II)
As far as I know, Moschopoulos did an amplification that deviates a lot from the Iliad (and only of some books). If you want to sample it, check Aristarchs homerische Textkritik nach den Fragmenten des Didymos from page 486, still the main reference for Homeric paraphrases:
http://archive.org/details/aristarchshomer00gramgoog
Homer 14:131: ...οἵ τὸ πάρος περ
θυμῷ ἤρα φέροντες ἀφεστᾶσ' οὐδὲ μάχονται.
Gaza 14:131: οἱ τὸ πρότερον τῇ ψυχῇ τὰ πρὸς χάριν προσάγοντες ἀφεστήκασιν, οὺδὲ πολεμοῦσιν.
Psellos 14:131: οἵτινες τὸ πρότερον τῇ ψυχῇ τὴν ἀργίαν χαριζόμενοι ἀφίσταν καὶ οὺ μάχονται.
...the mother of all paraphrases changed the history of the world. I mean the Septuaginta.
Iliad 16:44-45: ῥεῖα δέ κ' ἀκμῆτες κεκμηότας ἄνδρας ἀυτῇ
ὤσαιμεν προτὶ ἄστυ νεῶν ἄπο καὶ κλισιάων.
Psellos 16:44-45: ῥαδίως δὲ ἄν οἱ ἀκόπωτοι τοὺς κεκοπωμένους ἄνδρας τῷ πολέμῳ διώξωμεν πρὸς τὴν πόλιν ἄποθεν τῶν νεῶν καὶ τῶν σκηνῶν.
Gaza 16:44-45: εὐκόλως δὲ οἱ ἀναπαυόμενοι τοὺς κεκοπωμένους ἄνδρας βοῇ μόνῃ ἄποδιώξαιμεν πρὸς τὴν πόλιν ἀπὸ τῶν νεῶν καὶ τῶν σκηνῶν.
Return to Homeric Greek and Early Greek Poetry
Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 21 guests