Textkit Logo

masc. adjectives with fem. nouns

Here's where you can discuss all things Ancient Greek. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get translation help and more!

masc. adjectives with fem. nouns

Postby Bert » Thu Jul 17, 2003 11:44 pm

In pharr paragraph 724 it says: "The masculine form of many adjectives is often used for both masculine and feminine, even in the case of those which have seperate forms for the feminine".<br />My question is; Did this continue to happen in later dialects, specifically in koine?<br />Thank you in advance.
Bert
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1890
Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 2:28 am
Location: Arthur Ontario Canada

Re:masc. adjectives with fem. nouns

Postby annis » Fri Jul 18, 2003 12:23 am

Background<br /><br />Many adjectives (especially those that are compound) decline the same (often the 2nd declension) for M and F, and like 2nd neuter for N. Sometimes this is spoken of as "adjectives of two terminations" or "two endings."<br /><br />So, "deathless" [face=SPIonic]a)qa/natoj, -on[/face], because it is a compound (that a- bit at the front, meaning -less, along with the thanatos part), it only has two sets of endings: one for M and F, one for N. Thus, "The Deathless Muses" would be [face=SPIonic]ai( a)qa/natoi Mou=sai[/face].<br /><br />But you should think of these adjectives as sharing a single declension for both M and F, rather than thinking of them as taking masculine adjectives for feminine nouns. Keep in mind that the noun [face=SPIonic]no/soj[/face] "disease" is grammatically feminine, though it also takes the 2nd declension. Don't wed gender to declension too tightly - there are always exceptions.<br /><br />Homer regularly gives 2-ending adjectives a first declension feminine form when it suits him to do so. Other poets take similar liberties.<br /><br />These 2-ending adjectives survive in Attic, and in Koine, Greek. In the Koine you find more of them shifting allegiance to the 3-ending systems, but a quick look at my NT dictionary shows the 2-ending system was still robust.<br /><br />However<br /><br />While poets, imitating Epic diction, might have used 3-declension adjectives like 2-declension systems, I don't believe this practice existed in later Greek. Smyth gives no guidance except to say poets can do this, but that it does rarely occur in prose.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
annis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
Location: Madison, WI, USA

Re:masc. adjectives with fem. nouns

Postby Bert » Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:24 am

[quote author=William Annis link=board=2;threadid=266;start=0#1531 date=1058487802]<br /> <br /><br />So, "deathless" [face=SPIonic]a)qa/natoj, -on[/face], because it is a compound (that a- bit at the front, meaning -less, along with the thanatos part), it only has two sets of endings: one for M and F, one for N. Thus, "The Deathless Muses" would be [face=SPIonic]ai( a)qa/natoi Mou=sai[/face].<br />But you should think of these adjectives as sharing a single declension for both M and F, rather than thinking of them as taking masculine adjectives for feminine nouns. <br /><br />The Greek-English vocabulary at the back of the book lists "deathless" as [face=SPIonic]a)qa/natoj, h, on[/face] so I would have expected to see;[face=SPIonic]ai( a)qa/natai Mou=sai[/face].<br />With adjectives like [face=SPIonic]plei/wn, on[/face] or [face=SPIonic]ti/j, ti/[/face] I would not look for a noun to be either masc. or fem. because these are listed as sharing a single declension for m. and f.<br /><br />[quote author=William Annis link=board=2;threadid=266;start=0#1531 date=1058487802]<br /> <br /><br /> <br />Homer regularly gives 2-ending adjectives a first declension feminine form when it suits him to do so. Other poets take similar liberties.<br /><br /> Is this the reason "deathless" is listed with a feminine form?[/quote][/quote]
Bert
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1890
Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 2:28 am
Location: Arthur Ontario Canada

Re:masc. adjectives with fem. nouns

Postby annis » Sun Jul 20, 2003 11:37 pm

[quote author=Bert de Haan link=board=2;threadid=266;start=0#1538 date=1058498699]<br />[quote author=William Annis link=board=2;threadid=266;start=0#1531 date=1058487802]<br /> <br />Homer regularly gives 2-ending adjectives a first declension feminine form when it suits him to do so. Other poets take similar liberties.<br /><br /> Is this the reason "deathless" is listed with a feminine form?[/quote]<br /><br />I would say so, yes. In my L&S dictionary it's listed as a two ending form, but then says, "Epic also [face=SPIonic]-h, -on[/face] indicating some flexibility the Epic poets had with this particular adjective. [face=SPIonic]a)/praktoj, on[/face] is listed as having only the two.<br /><br />Perhaps only certain usually 2-ending adjectives were used by the poets with a separate feminine form. That'd take some research.[/quote]
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
annis
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3397
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2003 4:55 pm
Location: Madison, WI, USA

Re:masc. adjectives with fem. nouns

Postby Bert » Sun Jul 20, 2003 11:50 pm

Thank you very much!
Bert
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1890
Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 2:28 am
Location: Arthur Ontario Canada


Return to Learning Greek

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alexa [Bot] and 42 guests