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What I hate

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What I hate

Postby Episcopus » Sun Jul 13, 2003 11:59 am

Is those people on tapes, in movies, even EXAMINATION boards who think that Latin is pronounced like English! <br /><br />http://www.arlt.co.uk/dhtml/gcse_audio.php<br /><br />If you don't have the accent, don't even try! It misleads so many kids who will think that Latin is pronounced with an achingly strong American accent; or British, depending on whence the speaker comes. <br /><br />It's a disgrace! <br /><br />THIS is how it's done http://dekart.f.bg.ac.yu/~vnedeljk/VV/<br /><br />The latin language and its words corresponds with Viva Voce. <br /><br />
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Re:What I hate

Postby Raya » Sun Jul 13, 2003 1:39 pm

Ta mère! :P<br /><br />It's not just Latin - the same goes for classical Greek! How people can totally ignore the pitch accents and the phonetics different to English is beyond me... well, to be honest it ISN'T beyond me; I've been trying to learn the reconstructed pronunciation from the start, and I can see for myself how it complicates things...<br /><br />But all the same, I believe the sound of a language is very important, ESPECIALLY for those of us who intend to study poetry in the original (as poets will often play with the sounds of words as well as their meanings). And - I don't know about the Latin poets - but the Greeks wrote their poetry to be sung, which suggests that the sound of their poetry is all the more important!
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Re:What I hate

Postby Episcopus » Sun Jul 13, 2003 3:38 pm

I have no idea about Greek, but at least there remains remnants of the classical greek in modern greek; with that of course the native accent.<br /><br />eheu! Those men in examination boards who think themselves to be able to test children when they speak Latin as if were some dialect originated from London! <br /><br />Shame on them!<br /><br />ta frère hah :o
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Re:What I hate

Postby benissimus » Mon Jul 14, 2003 12:57 am

It's impractical to assume that everyone should pronounce foreign languages as they are meant to be. Can you pronounce all Chinese words correctly? Probably not. I would look at you pretty weird if you pronounced "vice versa" wee-kay wer-sah or "etc." as et kay-ter-ah. You can pronounce these however you like, but there's no need to be so exclusivist. Just be glad people are using Latin in our speech and art forms. For hundreds of years, each language just pronounced it according to their own rules.<br /><br />English Caesar= See-zur; Cicero=Sis-ur-o<br />Italian Caesar= Chay-sahr; Cicero= Chee-cher-o<br />Spanish Caesar= Say-sahr; Cicero= See-ser-o<br /><br />Ironically, German pronunciation is more accurate than any of Latin's offspring!<br /><br />German Caesar= Kie-zahr; Cicero= Kee-ker-o<br />
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Re:What I hate

Postby vinobrien » Mon Jul 14, 2003 3:35 pm

Your sense of irony is, in this case, aligned with the Italian government. However, without wishing to throw a spaniard into the works, don't our Iberian friends call the old boy theethero? And the German girl I've just been speaking to definately called the other one K-eye-zahr.
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Re:What I hate

Postby Episcopus » Mon Jul 14, 2003 11:01 pm

German is pronounced well. And they pronounce things relatively well, bar french due to its lack of phoneticism :D<br /><br /><br />I never said that some people are totally wrong but at least they could understand that Latin is NOT english. <br /><br />English bastards. And I'm 1/2 english.
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Re:What I hate

Postby Carola » Tue Jul 15, 2003 11:05 pm

Well, as I probably speak Latin with an east coast Australian accent I guess that would have really confused any of the Romans! Our university lecturer did his degree & post grad at Oxford but comes from an Italian background which probably gives him the best of both worlds. He made some tapes of the poetry we are studying and I must say that hearing the poems in this way certainly helped my understanding of them. <br />I can't believe that some teachers totally ignore the standard "Classical Latin" pronunciation - it is found in many textbooks and on the internet; even if we don't really know exactly how it sounded it is not hard to make to make an educated guess.
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Re:What I hate

Postby benissimus » Tue Jul 15, 2003 11:40 pm

Ah yes, refer to vinobrien's post. I was attempting that pronunciation when referring to German, but I totally forgot that the Spanish pronounce their soft C's as th! I guess I'm just used to Mexican Spanish, though I have no excuse since my Spanish teacher spoke the "Iberian" type.
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Re:What I hate

Postby Emma_85 » Wed Jul 16, 2003 3:44 pm

well the germans may pronounce the latin right, but definatly not the greek. as the can't pronounce "th", they just pronouce it as if it were a normal t. and the german r.... , well they just don't pronounce the rolling r.<br /><br />have any of you listened to what french latin sounds like? that's funny now... ;-)
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Re:What I hate

Postby Episcopus » Thu Jul 17, 2003 3:21 pm

[quote author=Emma_85 link=board=6;threadid=247;start=0#1434 date=1058370241]<br /><br /><br />have any of you listened to what french latin sounds like? that's funny now... ;-)<br />[/quote]<br /><br /> ;D
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Re:What I hate

Postby mariek » Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:59 pm

[quote author=Emma_85 link=board=6;threadid=247;start=0#1434 date=1058370241]have any of you listened to what french latin sounds like? that's funny now... ;-)<br />[/quote]<br />No, where can I hear that?
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Re:What I hate

Postby Episcopus » Wed Jul 23, 2003 10:31 pm

[quote author=mariek link=board=6;threadid=247;start=0#1869 date=1058975943]<br />[quote author=Emma_85 link=board=6;threadid=247;start=0#1434 date=1058370241]have any of you listened to what french latin sounds like? that's funny now... ;-)<br />[/quote]<br />No, where can I hear that?<br />[/quote]<br /><br /> :o dicam NOTHING :o
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Re:What I hate

Postby klewlis » Tue Jul 29, 2003 3:14 pm

as an english speaker, any language i learn is going to have an english accent... that's just the way it is, and i'm not sure that it's profitable to criticize english speakers for it. i'm sure the same goes for all other languages (in fact i know it does, since i have encountered many non-native english speakers and have hardly been able to understand some of them) :P the point is to keep trying, learning, and improving, recognizing that your accent also must improve with time. <br /><br />if i learn french, i will for years speak french with an english accent... the same goes for spanish or german or any other language i choose to learn. accents are not easily shed or acquired.<br /><br />perhaps some languages' accents are more similar to "real" latin than english is... that doesn't make the english speakers bad ;)
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