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spemus in te

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spemus in te

Postby Junya » Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:09 pm

Hi.

About a Christian expression spemus in te,
I'm unclear about in.

In English expression "we hope in you", in sounds like it is locatival, of course tropically.

But looking in L&S, in + abl doesn't seem to have such usage as would be attached to a verb like speo.
and in speo page, I can't find a sample sentence with in + abl..

Rather, this in te may be in + acc., in which in means (feelings) toward, as amor in te.

What do you think about my thought ?

But if this hope in you is a translation from Greek, I would have to check the Greek dictionary or re-post this question to the Greek forum.
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Re: spemus in te

Postby adrianus » Thu Dec 13, 2012 6:35 pm

Rectè dicis, accusativo casui servit in praepositio in illo dicto. Vide "credere in" ("credere in Deum", L&S) cum accusativo.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: spemus in te

Postby bedwere » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:40 pm

Tamen invenitur saltem in latinitate ecclesiastica etiam spero cum ablativo, sicut in psalmo XLII ex psalterio Gallicano, qui in missa Romana antiqua recitatur dum ad altare sacerdos ingreditur:

Spera in Deo, quóniam adhuc confitébor illi: salutáre vultus mei, et Deus meus.
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Re: spemus in te

Postby adrianus » Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:35 pm

Id mihi curae est quare duae versiones sint?

Quare tristis es, anima mea, et quare conturbas me? Spera in Deo, quoniam adhuc confitebor illi: salutare vultus mei, et Deus meus.

Quare deprimeris, anima mea, et tumultuaris in me? Spera in Deum: quia rursus celebrabo eum, salutem vultus mei et Deum meum.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: spemus in te

Postby bedwere » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:12 am

adrianus wrote:Id mihi curae est quare duae versiones sint?

Quare tristis es, anima mea, et quare conturbas me? Spera in Deo, quoniam adhuc confitebor illi: salutare vultus mei, et Deus meus.

Quare deprimeris, anima mea, et tumultuaris in me? Spera in Deum: quia rursus celebrabo eum, salutem vultus mei et Deum meum.

Ave, Adriane. Sunt saltem sex versiones Latinae libri psalmorum. Versio autem altera quam ostendisti ex Psalterio piano provenit. Quae versio, ab Augustino cardinale Bea confecta, papa Pio XII regnante, cum elegans sit, multis tum displicet. Ardue enim cantu Gregoriano psalmi ex versione piana canuntur.
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Re: spemus in te

Postby Junya » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:22 pm

Thank you Adrianus, Bedwere.

But I feel still vague about in.
In spera in Deum, in + acc. would be "(feelings) toward", being proper as Latin.
In spera in Deo, is in + abl. a copy of Greek (or Hebrew) expression ?
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Re: spemus in te

Postby Junya » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:29 pm

About a Christian expression spemus in te,
I'm unclear about in.

In English expression "we hope in you", in sounds like it is locatival, of course tropically.

But looking in L&S, in + abl doesn't seem to have such usage as would be attached to a verb like speo.
and in speo page, I can't find a sample sentence with in + abl..

Rather, this in te may be in + acc., in which in means (feelings) toward, as amor in te.

............
But I feel still vague about in.
In spera in Deum, in + acc. would be "(feelings) toward", being proper as Latin.
In spera in Deo, is in + abl. a copy of Greek (or Hebrew) expression ?


I found by myself speravit anima mea in Domino (psalm 129), again spere in + abl..
Again I ask you if think this form is proper Latin.
I want to be sure if this is proper Latin or not.
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