Textkit Logo

More Carrot Less Stick

Here's where you can discuss all things Latin. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get translation help and more!

Moderator: thesaurus

More Carrot Less Stick

Postby Cheiromancer » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:22 pm

A parishioner asked me how to translate 'More Carrot Less Stick' into Latin. A vice principal wants it: It is intended as advice for some teachers who are perhaps a little bit strict.

I have no idea how one would even approach translating 'the carrot and the stick'. Did the Romans have carrots? Did they have a saying contrasting positive and negative incentives? Any ideas would be appreciated.
Cheiromancer
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:20 pm

Re: More Carrot Less Stick

Postby adrianus » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:57 pm

"Plus pastinacae, minus ferulae!", I think // ut opinor
vel "Hortatum, non ferulam!" ("Encouragement, not the rod!")

Certum est vocabulum classicum scilicet pastinaca at non classicum istud dictum, verbum pro verbo, secundum OED.
Pastinaca (parsnip/carrot) is a classical word but "More carrot, less stick" is not a classical saying, at least not word for word, I understand from OED.

Cheiromancer wrote:Did they have a saying contrasting positive and negative incentives?

Nescio. Nullum istius generis apud Erasmum inveni. Forsit alius dicat. Nisi est dictum verum latinum, id melius anglicè stet, aliàs ventosum sonet.
I don't know. I didn't find one in Erasmus. Maybe another might. Unless there's an authentic saying in Latin, I would leave it in English. It may sound windy, otherwise.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
adrianus
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:45 pm

Re: More Carrot Less Stick

Postby Cheiromancer » Mon Nov 26, 2012 5:24 pm

Thank you so much! I communicated this suggestion, as well as the barbarous translation I had attempted - 'plus carota, minus baculum'. I am not sure what was used to beat donkeys, but I thought that 'baculum' would be familiar from the logical fallacy of appeal to threats. Carota is from the Latin name of carrots, though the vegetable only seems to have been domesticated in the 10th century, and so it would not be a classical word.
Cheiromancer
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:20 pm

Re: More Carrot Less Stick

Postby adrianus » Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:19 pm

http://www.carrotmuseum.co.uk/history.html

Oxford Latin Dictionary wrote:"pastinaca.~ae...1. A carrot (app. applied also to the parsnip)...[Celsus, Pliny].

And "carota", indeed, which is a later word.*
Aevi classici est "pastinaca". Aevi serioris est "carota" nomen, eodem tempore bonum latinum.

*
Caelius Apicius (3rd/4th C AD), De Re Coquinaria, http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/apicius/apicius3.shtml, wrote:XXI. Carotae et pastinacae.

1. Carotae frictae oenogaro inferuntar.

2. ALITER CAROTAS.

Sale, oleo puro et aceto.

3. ALITER.

Carotas elixatas concisas in cuminato oleo modico coques et inferes. Cuminatum conchilorum facies.



OLD wrote:"Ferula...2. A stick, rod a. (as an instrument of punishment, correction, etc.). b. (as a walking-stick). c (med., as a splint)

Baculum...1. A staff, walking stick...2. A lictor's rod...3. A sceptre
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
adrianus
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:45 pm

Re: More Carrot Less Stick

Postby Σεβαστός » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:59 am

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=tka838efZvkC&pg=PA90&dq=carrots+romans&hl=en&sa=X&ei=TJm0UPmEGuvs0gWBw4CAAw&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=carrots%20romans&f=false Apparently the orange carrots we have today did not turn up till the seventeenth century – quite what colour they would have been I do not know...!
hic Graeca doctrina ore tenus exercitus animum bonis artibus non induerat.
Σεβαστός
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:34 pm

Re: More Carrot Less Stick

Postby adrianus » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:20 pm

Σεβαστός wrote:quite what colour they would have been I do not know...!

Albi et purpurei coloris

http://www.carrotmuseum.co.uk/history.html
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
adrianus
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 3252
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:45 pm

Re: More Carrot Less Stick

Postby Σεβαστός » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:34 pm

Benigne indicas, Adriane: talium imprudens eram!
hic Graeca doctrina ore tenus exercitus animum bonis artibus non induerat.
Σεβαστός
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 6:34 pm


Return to Learning Latin

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: adrianus, Bing [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], MSNbot Media and 78 guests