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Latin language books are unlike other language books

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Latin language books are unlike other language books

Postby mariek » Sat Jul 12, 2003 11:51 pm

I noticed something about these Latin language books when I was browsing through them. They don't start off like many other language books with some basic/practical conversational vocabulary/sentences, such as:<br /><br />hi/hello<br />goodbye / see you later<br />how are you?<br />what's your name? / my name is ____<br />good morning / good afternoon / good night<br />etc...<br /><br /><br />Why is this?<br />
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Re:Latin language books are unlike other language books

Postby bingley » Sun Jul 13, 2003 2:48 am

Because they assume you're going to read GREAT THOUGHTS and HISTORY and be terribly intellectual, rather than actually speak to anyone
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Re:Latin language books are unlike other language books

Postby benissimus » Sun Jul 13, 2003 2:50 am

Wheelock's does!<br /><br />I never did learn the phrase for "good morning/night" though...let me look that up...<br /><br />Apparently, "salve" and "vale" apply to all general greetings and farewells.<br /><br />Hello= salve<br />Goodbye= vale; ave<br />How are you?= Quid agis hodie? (How are you doing today?)<br />What's your name?= Quid est nomen tuum?; De quo nomine cognoscimini?<br />My name is ____= Nomen meum est _____; Cognoscor nomine _____<br /><br />Perhaps most books disregard conversational Latin as a useful tool. How unfortunate! >:(
Last edited by benissimus on Thu Jan 29, 2004 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
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Re:Latin language books are unlike other language books

Postby mariek » Sun Jul 13, 2003 7:19 am

[quote author=bingley link=board=3;threadid=244;start=0#1288 date=1058064523]<br />Because they assume you're going to read GREAT THOUGHTS and HISTORY and be terribly intellectual, rather than actually speak to anyone[/quote]Ha! intellectualis non sum. ;D
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Re:Latin language books are unlike other language books

Postby mariek » Sun Jul 13, 2003 7:29 am

[quote author=benissimus link=board=3;threadid=244;start=0#1289 date=1058064659]<br />Perhaps most books disregard conversational Latin as a useful tool. How unfortunate! >:( [/quote]<br /><br />Salve Benissimus!!!<br /><br />Thanks for translating those basic phrases for me.<br /><br />That's too bad. I can imagine how useful it would have been to pass notes in class, after all, it's not like all that many people would be "eavesdrop" on your conversation. Or imagine going on vacation and writing all your postcards in Latin...<br /><br />I'm in no hurry to start Wheelock since I seem to be on a roll with D'Ooge, but I'll have to check it out for more practical uses of Latin.<br /><br />
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Re:Latin language books are unlike other language books

Postby Magistra » Sun Jul 13, 2003 2:02 pm

mariek,<br /><br />If you're interested in everyday conversational Latin, you'd probably like Conversational Latin by John Traupman. I found it at amazon.com. The first site below lets you look at 13 sample pages.<br /><br />Watch the wrap on these web addresses. You may have to cut & paste into your browser.<br /><br />http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0865163812/ref=lib_dp_TFCV/002-4004905-0019205?v=glance&s=books&vi=reader<br /><br />The book can currently be purchased $9.50 at half.com:<br /><br />http://half.ebay.com/cat/buy/prod.cgi?cpid=1241775&domain_id=1856&meta_id=1<br /><br />Conversational Latin also has a 1 hour tape associated with it:<br /><br />http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0865164754/qid=1058103257/sr=12-1/002-0256332-0604825?v=glance&s=books#product-details<br /><br />Here are a few basic sayings:<br /><br />http://www.learn-latin-language-software.com/phrases/LaPhrases.htm<br /><br />Magistra<br /><br />
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Re:Latin language books are unlike other language books

Postby mariek » Sun Jul 13, 2003 10:05 pm

[quote author=Magistra link=board=3;threadid=244;start=0#1311 date=1058104930][/quote]If you're interested in everyday conversational Latin, you'd probably like Conversational Latin by John Traupman.<br />Yes, that's exactly what i'm interested in! I browsed through the sample pages on Amazon. It looks like a great supplement to the grammar book, especially after mastering the basic grammar concepts because I noticed that the book assumes you already understand the basics.<br /><br />
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Re:Latin language books are unlike other language books

Postby Magistra » Sun Jul 13, 2003 10:32 pm

Actually you can use a lot of the phrases without understanding the grammar thoroughly.<br /><br />In Spanish I classes one of the first phrases taught is "me llamo ----". Its English equivalent is "my name is ----". Gramatically it means "I call myself ----".<br /><br />I prefer to know the "story behind the equivalent", but the equivalent is really what's necessary for basic conversation.<br /><br />Memorization of a few equvalents may help you out until you get to the grammar behind them. Of course, there are idioms that are understood within the language, but when translated literally mean nothing.<br /><br />Is there a direct literal Latin translation of the Simpsons' "D'oh"?<br /><br />"Eheu" comes to mind as a close approximation, but it doesn't carry the super-slang of the Simpsons.<br /><br />Magistra
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Re:Latin language books are unlike other language books

Postby Carola » Sun Jul 13, 2003 10:47 pm

It would actually be good fun to learn some of the slang used by the average Roman workman or shopkeeper, as opposed to the upper classes who wrote most of the literature. The walls of Pompei probably hold a good deal of this - although some of the stuff was probably never written down. Some thing like the bright repartee heard from taxi drivers in heavy traffic.... I'm sure the Romans had the same situations and reacted in much the same way!
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Re:Latin language books are unlike other language books

Postby mariek » Mon Jul 14, 2003 1:08 am

[quote author=Magistra link=board=3;threadid=244;start=0#1333 date=1058135565][/quote]Is there a direct literal Latin translation of the Simpsons' "D'oh"?<br /><br />"Eheu" comes to mind as a close approximation, but it doesn't carry the super-slang of the Simpsons.<br /><br />I wonder... was there a lot of slang, informal, or colloquial words spoken way back then?<br /><br />I've seen "eheu" somewhere on this forum, I think it was Episcopus who may have used it, and I had no idea what it meant.<br />
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Re:Latin language books are unlike other language books

Postby benissimus » Mon Jul 14, 2003 4:23 am

Oh yes, there were certainly colloquial and slang words! I don't know too many of them, however. Many books teach the words basium and as the words for a "kiss". Basium and basiatio were pretty much invented by the poet Catullus and passed into common use. Basium is actually the word that survived into the Romance languages and NOT the proper osculus (literally meaning "little mouth").
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Re:Latin language books are unlike other language books

Postby vinobrien » Mon Jul 14, 2003 4:22 pm

Catullus was a northerner and he would use various dialect words which now look like real, Roman Latin but Lesbia must have thought really odd. He also refers to a kiss as an osculus as well as a suavium. He is also credited with using words borrowed from book-keeping, so anything's possible.<br /><br />Pronunciation was obviously a bit colloquial too. How about Suetonius on Vespasian<br /><br />Mestrium Florum consularem, admonitus ab eo plaustra <br /> potius quam plostra dicenda, postero die Flaurum salutavit. <br /> --Suetonius, _Vespasian_ 22 <br /><br />
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Re:Latin language books are unlike other language books

Postby Magistra » Mon Jul 14, 2003 11:42 pm

Slang:<br /><br />I don't have Traupman's book with me, but I believe he includes some slang.<br /><br />If you're into obscenities, check out the ancient authors:<br /><br />Martial & Catullus<br /><br />They get really personal -- body parts & functions, to be polite!<br /><br />Magistra
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