Textkit Logo

Adjectives

Here's where you can discuss all things Ancient Greek. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get translation help and more!

Adjectives

Postby Raya » Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:55 am

In the case of an adjective such as [face=SPIonic]a)/dikoj[/face] - which has 2 sets of endings (masc/fem and neuter) in the positive degree, and forms comparatives in [face=SPIonic]-teroj[/face] and superlatives in [face=SPIonic]-tatoj[/face] - does it retain 2 sets of endings in the comparative and superlative degrees, or does it form separate masculine, feminine and neuter forms?
phpbb
User avatar
Raya
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 302
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 9:27 am

Postby auctor » Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:47 am

Without prejudice: my reading of the Oxford grammar says that comps and superls are formed by adding -teros, -tera, -teron to the masculine stem. Nothing is said about masc and fem ever being the same, unlike the bald adjective. The only comment is about the preceding vowel being long or short.

I look forward to being shown otherwise :lol:

Paul McK
auctor
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 6:35 pm
Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex

Postby auctor » Wed Feb 18, 2004 12:15 pm

Sorry, my last post is dreadfully incomplete...
-teros, -tera, -teron are added to the masc adj stem for comparatives
and (this is the bit I flew past without mentioning)
-tatos, -tatE, -taton are added to the masc adj stem for superlatives

However the distinction between masc and fem does appear to stand.

Sorry again for the "send button before thinking"!!
auctor
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 6:35 pm
Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex

Postby Raya » Thu Feb 19, 2004 11:19 am

Thanks for your reply, and yes, I'm aware that this is the general case... but neither the Oxford grammar (which I have as well) nor my textbook (H&Q) are clear on the case for adjectives with two sets of endings in the positive...

Do the feminine forms [face=SPIonic]a)dikwte/ra[/face] and [face=SPIonic]a)dikwta/th[/face] exist?
Or are [face=SPIonic]a)dikw&teroj[/face] and [face=SPIonic]a)dikw&tatoj[/face] used in both masculine and feminine circumstances?

From the information I have, I really can't tell. :(
Last edited by Raya on Thu Feb 19, 2004 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
phpbb
User avatar
Raya
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 302
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 9:27 am

Postby auctor » Thu Feb 19, 2004 12:17 pm

Raya,
The handiest solution would be to find an example... LSJ isn't specific, Perseus is predictably down and I've had a (very) quick scan through Demosthenes' Prosecution of Neaira (a likely source of "most unjust female", I thought) to no avail.
However the JACT grammar book has [face=SPIonic]a)melhj & eu)frwn[/face] in its list of adjectives forming regular comparatives without further comment... maybe we can infer something from that!
I'll have a tinkle with Perseus sometime.
But... in your examples the o's would be omegas if the forms do in fact occur.

cheers for now,
Paul McK
auctor
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 6:35 pm
Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex

Postby Raya » Thu Feb 19, 2004 12:44 pm

Thanks again!
I wonder Smyth says anything on the subject...

auctor wrote:in your examples the o's would be omegas if the forms do in fact occur.

Edited that - :oops: - I thought [face=SPIonic]a)/dikoj[/face] had a long iota!
(Note to self: mind the macrons!!!)
phpbb
User avatar
Raya
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 302
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 9:27 am

Postby auctor » Thu Feb 19, 2004 12:54 pm

Please don't think that I'm reading the dictionary but...

[face=SPIonic]a)lhqhj -ej

a)lhqestath profasij

a)lupoj -on

a)lupotata[/face]

In LSJ attributed to Thucydides 1.23 and Aristophanes Lysistrata 169.9 respectively.
That seems to confirm our thoughts (or hopes!).

cheers
auctor
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 6:35 pm
Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex

Postby Raya » Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:39 pm

With regard to [face=SPIonic]a)lhqhj[/face] (and, I presume, other two-ending adjectives of the consonant declension), we have an answer indeed! Thanks for that.

As for [face=SPIonic]a)lupoj[/face] (and other two-ending compound adjectives): if you know the final syllable of [face=SPIonic]a)lupotata[/face] to be a long alpha, we have our answer there as well!
But if the alpha is short, it could still be neuter plural. (I've tried looking it up in context, but I can't seem to find the word.)

Pardon me for being fussy here, for I do appreciate your help so far - but if possible I'd rather cancel all doubts on the matter.

(And, for the record, Smyth doesn't address the issue either!)
phpbb
User avatar
Raya
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 302
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 9:27 am

Postby auctor » Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:27 pm

Xenophon, Cyropaedia book 8, chapter 7, section 11

[face=SPIonic]tau=ta de/ soi didou\j nomi/zw a)rxh\n me\n mei/zw kai\ tou)/noma th=j basilei/aj tw=| presbute/rw| katalipei=n, eu)daimoni/an de\ soi\ a)lupote/ran. (2.17)[/face]

The last word is a fem. acc. sing.
I got through to Perseus just then and found the above. Funny about Lysistrata though - I couldn't find anything suitable either.
Still you can plug away at P now and probably come up with some examples of more/most unjust women :wink:

good luck,
Paul McK
auctor
Textkit Member
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 6:35 pm
Location: Eastbourne, East Sussex

Postby Raya » Thu Feb 19, 2004 7:59 pm

Well, that settles it, I believe!
It was good taking this little linguistic adventure with you... *offers handshake*

(And how fitting to find the answer in Cyropaedia, which I begin reading with my tutor on Monday!)
phpbb
User avatar
Raya
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 302
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 9:27 am


Return to Learning Greek

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: C. S. Bartholomew, Google Adsense [Bot] and 69 guests