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Pharr Lesson XX - English to Greek exercises

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Pharr Lesson XX - English to Greek exercises

Postby janaya2 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:43 pm

I'm working my way through Pharr's Homeric Greek and it's been fairly straightforward up until now. I've done the exercises in section 117, could someone review my answers please? Any feedback and corrections are more than welcomed!

1. Σκῆπτρον καὶ στέμματα θεοῦ οὒ χραισμήσουσι γέροντι, ἢ δηθύνων κοίλῃσι πάρα νηυσὶν ᾿Αχαιῶν μεγαθύμων ἢ αὖτις ἰὼν ὕστερον, οὕνεκα τὸν ὀλέξει ᾿Αγαμέμνων, ψυχήν δε ᾿Αιδι προϊάψειν.

2. Οὒ λύσει παῖδα φίλην, γῆρας δε ἔπεισί μιν ἐν οἴκῳ Αγαμέμνονος Κλυταιμνήστρης τε, τηλόθι πάτρης.

3. ἐρεθίζων, ἐρεθίσας, ἐρίζων, ἐρίσας, τίκτων, τεκών, ἔχων, πέρθων, πέρσας, χραισμέων, χραισμήσας, ἀντιόων, ἀντιάσας, ἰών, δηθύνων.
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Re: Pharr Lesson XX - English to Greek exercises

Postby Polyidos » Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:14 pm

It has been a few years since I went through Pharr (luckily with a Textkit study group), but I'll point out what I can.

1. The sceptre and the fillets of the god will not avail the old man (dat.) if he tarries (particip.) beside the hollow ships of the great-souled Achaeans, or if he returns later, for Agamemnon will attack him and send (his) soul to Hades.

1. Σκῆπτρον καὶ στέμματα θεοῦ οὒ χραισμήσουσι γέροντι, ἢ δηθύνων κοίλῃσι πάρα νηυσὶν ᾿Αχαιῶν μεγαθύμων ἢ αὖτις ἰὼν ὕστερον, οὕνεκα τὸν ὀλέξει ᾿Αγαμέμνων, ψυχήν δε ᾿Αιδι προϊάψειν.


(a) I found it helpful to follow Homeric forms where possible, just for practice. So, since the Iliad passage in this lesson used it I wrote θεοῖο rather than θεοῦ, although both are correct.

(b) Pharr indicates that we should use a participle to express the verbal idea he tarries, and you used δηθύνων. Being a verbal adjective, the participle needs to agree in number, gender and case with the noun which it is modifying. Your form is nom. masc. sg. which does not agree with any of the preceding nouns. (Note that a nom. participle can agree with the implicit subject of a finite verb form, but here the verb is 3pl. so that does not fit either.) Since he tarries has to refer to the old man it needs to agree with γέροντι and so would be δηθύνοντι.

(c) The same idea applies to ἰὼν which also modifies γέροντι and so needs to be dat. rather than nom. You can see this principle in action in the last line of the Iliad passage in lesson XIX except there the participles are acc. case. I also followed Homer's phrasing from there and so wrote ὕστερον αὖτις ἰόντι.

(d) οὕνεκα usually gives a reason for what preceded it, and is often rendered because, since, seeing that (from Cunliffe). To me, at any rate, plain old γὰρ seemed a better fit.

(e) Did you intend ὀλέξει to be a future of ὀλέκω? I don't think that stem has a future form. Regardless, if you look up attack in Pharr's English - Greek glossary the only verb he gives is ἐποίχομαι, a new word from this lesson where the various senses can stray rather far from just attack. The future principal part is followed by an *, meaning that it's an Attic form analogous to known Homeric forms but not attested in Homer. (See the beginning of Pharr's Greek - English glossary for the explanation of these markings.) So, I used ἐποιχήσεται for will attack.

(f) ψυχήν δε For the accents δέ is not enclitic so that should have been ψυχὴν δὲ. Also, that should be Ἄιδι (with an acute accent).

(g) προϊάψειν Did you add a ν-moveable here? 3sg. pres. act. ind. forms do not use one because you end up with a pres. act. infinitive form. So, that should have been just προϊάψει.

2. He will not free his darling daughter, but old age will come upon her in the home of Agamemnon and Clytaem(n)estra, far from (her) native land.

2. Οὒ λύσει παῖδα φίλην, γῆρας δε ἔπεισί μιν ἐν οἴκῳ Αγαμέμνονος Κλυταιμνήστρης τε, τηλόθι πάτρης.


(a) Οὒ is a proclitic and so has no accent, just the smooth breathing Οὐ.

(b) It seemed to me that a strong adversative conjunction belonged here so I used ἀλλά rather than the weaker δέ but that is just my opinion. In any event, again δέ is not enclitic and so at least needs an accent.

(c) ἔπεισί Here Pharr called for will come upon, and so from the future principal part ἐπείσομαι as given in this lesson's vocabulary. Hence it should be ἐπείσεται. (Actually, ἐπείσεταί μιν since you use the enclitic acc. pronoun.)

3. Vexing, having vexed, quarreling, having quarreled, bearing, having borne, having, sacking, having sacked, helping, having helped, sharing, having shared, going, tarrying.

3. ἐρεθίζων, ἐρεθίσας, ἐρίζων, ἐρίσας, τίκτων, τεκών, ἔχων, πέρθων, πέρσας, χραισμέων, χραισμήσας, ἀντιόων, ἀντιάσας, ἰών, δηθύνων.


(a) In English bearing can mean either to carry (as in to bear a great burden) or to produce, to beget (as in to bear fruit or to bear a child), just to give two of the broad bundles of possible meanings. Since an earlier Iliad passage used φέρω but τίκτω has not yet been used I figured that φέρω (mostly associated with the first English sense) was the intended verb here rather than τίκτω (mostly associated with the second English sense). Of course φέρω is also interesting because its other tenses come from other roots (a suppletive verb). So, I had φέρων and ἐνείκας. Maybe somebody else can comment on this.

(b) Up to this point, lesson XVII introduced ἐκπέρθω as the verb meaning to sack (although the intensive sense of to sack utterly is probably the better rendering). So, I had ἐκπέρθων and ἐκπέρσας although your versions do also work.

(c) ἀντιόων I am going to guess that this is a typo for ἀντιάων (ά instead of ό).

Otherwise, everything looks fine to me.

I hope I haven't made any glaringly erroneous statements or observations, but if I have, I'm sure that someone more knowledgeable than myself will post any necessary corrections.

Cheers.
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Re: Pharr Lesson XX - English to Greek exercises

Postby janaya2 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:19 am

Thanks for the feedback! I followed your suggestions and corrected the sentences below.

1. Σκῆπτρον καὶ στέμματα θεοῖο ὀυ χραισμήσουσι γέροντι, ἢ δηθύνοντι κοίλῃσι πάρα νηυσὶν ᾿Αχαιῶν μεγαθύμων ἢ ὕστερον αὖτις ἰόντι, τὸν γάρ ἐποιχήσεται ᾿Αγαμέμνων, ψυχὴν δὲ Ἄιδι προϊάψει.

I think I need to review the rules on accentuation, proclitics/enclitics, and ν-moveable since that seems to be where I'm making most of the errors. Also, are there any rules for determining when to use the Homeric forms instead of the later ones, or is there any difference in meaning between them?

2. Οὐ λύσει παῖδα φίλην, ἀλλὰ γῆρας ἔπείσεταί μιν ἐν οἴκῳ Ἀγαμέμνονος Κλυταιμνήστρης τε, τηλόθι πάτρης.

3. ἐρεθίζων, ἐρεθίσας, ἐρίζων, ἐρίσας, φερών, ἐνεικας, ἔχων, ἐκπέρθων, ἐκπέρσας, χραισμέων, χραισμήσας, ἀντιάων, ἀντιάσας, ἰών, δηθύνων.

You're right about bearing/having borne and sacking/having sacked. I've been working through the chapters first doing the Greek to English translations, then going back later to review and translate the English to Greek so I've inadvertently been using some forms not presented in the lesson yet.
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Re: Pharr Lesson XX - English to Greek exercises

Postby Polyidos » Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:03 am

janaya2 wrote:Thanks for the feedback! I followed your suggestions and corrected the sentences below.

1. Σκῆπτρον καὶ στέμματα θεοῖο ὀυ χραισμήσουσι γέροντι, ἢ δηθύνοντι κοίλῃσι πάρα νηυσὶν ᾿Αχαιῶν μεγαθύμων ἢ ὕστερον αὖτις ἰόντι, τὸν γάρ ἐποιχήσεται ᾿Αγαμέμνων, ψυχὴν δὲ Ἄιδι προϊάψει.


That looks much better. I do see that I failed to notice that the accent on παράis on the last syllable, not the first, so παρὰ νηυσὶν. I'm pretty sure that all of the disyllabic prepositions are accented on their final syllable.

I think I need to review the rules on accentuation, proclitics/enclitics, and ν-moveable since that seems to be where I'm making most of the errors. Also, are there any rules for determining when to use the Homeric forms instead of the later ones, or is there any difference in meaning between them?


Pharr's sections §§534 - 550 cover accents, §§551 - 559 cover proclitics and enclitics, §§561 - 563 cover movable consonants. The most common occurrences of ν-moveable are after words ending in -σι, but see Pharr's sections for the fuller story. The list of proclitics and enclitics is, thankfully, rather short.

Lots more can be said on Greek accentuation. Several people here on Textkit recommend A New Short Guide to the Accentuation of Greek by Philomen Probert, 2003 Bristol Classical Press. If you really feel in the mood for punishment, check out A practical Introduction to Greek Accentuation by Henry William Chandler, 2nd Ed. 1881 Clarendon Press. It's freely available from Google Books or The Internet Archive.

The Homeric endings, such as the gen. sg. in -οιο just reflect an earlier form of the language. Note that Homer uses -οιο and -οο and -ου (which is just the contracted form of -οο) as the metre requires. They all represent the same genitive case with the same meanings. There are similar situations for dative case endings. I tended to use the earlier forms just to firm them up in my memory and to ease recognition for when they occur in the Homeric text. For the purposes of Pharr's English to Greek exercises I'd say it is entirely up the student to choose between them.

2. Οὐ λύσει παῖδα φίλην, ἀλλὰ γῆρας ἔπείσεταί μιν ἐν οἴκῳ Ἀγαμέμνονος Κλυταιμνήστρης τε, τηλόθι πάτρης.

3. ἐρεθίζων, ἐρεθίσας, ἐρίζων, ἐρίσας, φερών, ἐνεικας, ἔχων, ἐκπέρθων, ἐκπέρσας, χραισμέων, χραισμήσας, ἀντιάων, ἀντιάσας, ἰών, δηθύνων.


ἐνεικας Right, but the accent is missing. Should be ἐνείκας.

You're right about bearing/having borne and sacking/having sacked. I've been working through the chapters first doing the Greek to English translations, then going back later to review and translate the English to Greek so I've inadvertently been using some forms not presented in the lesson yet.


I can certainly understand that approach. From my personal experience, the English to Greek exercises are often the most difficult ones. It's unfortunate that Pharr's Greek - English glossary does not give the lesson number in which a word is introduced. I can also mention that Pharr's definitions are very minimal, as befits a book for beginners, I suppose, but I found it quite helpful to look at Cunliffe's Homeric Lexicon for the bigger picture. It also aims to list every use of a given word in both the Iliad and the Odyssey so one can see the various contexts of usage. It can certainly become tedious looking up almost every word like that, but I personally found it of great value in giving a more balanced view of the meanings. Naturally, YMMV. :)

In any event, I hope that you are having fun working through Pharr and enjoying the chance to experience Homer in the original language. Cheers.
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