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about kai

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about kai

Postby Junya » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:02 pm

Hi.

Does kai sometimes mean namely, that is to say ?

In LSJ,
2. to addalimiting or defining expression, πρὸς μακρὸν ὄρος κ. Κύνθιον ὄχθον to the mountain and specially to . . , h.Ap. 17, cf. A.Ag. 63 (anap.), S.Tr.1277 (anap.) (sts. in reverse order, “πρὸς δῶμα Διὸς κ. μακρὸν Ὄλυμπον” Il.5.398);


this explanation can be interpreted so.


I have the same question about Latin et.
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Re: about kai

Postby NateD26 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:27 am

Can you please post the quote in which you think this meaning would
be most suitable?
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Re: about kai

Postby Junya » Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:46 pm

Hi, Nate. :)

I just asked a question that has lingered long since.
As I was seeing a lyric of a medieval chant CD a couple of days ago, though it is written in Latin, I was reminded of this problem.

Iterumque vocem de celo
me sic docentem audivi, et dixit.....


The translation the leaflet gives is :
And again I heard a voice from heaven
instructing me. And it said...


I felt this et could mean namely, that is to say,
so I checked Lewis & Short, and got a similar explanation to the one given for kai in LSJ.
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... entry%3Det
II. In partic.
A. To subjoin a word or phrase which more accurately defines or more briefly comprehends what goes before, and indeed, and moreover, and that too

There, there seemed to be no sample sentence that proved it could mean namely, that is, while in LSJ for kai there seemed to be two samples, as quoted above.
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Re: about kai

Postby NateD26 » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:46 pm

I can't help with the Latin. Adrianus has explained in the Latin section that this
definition is rather different from namely, that is to say. From what I could
find in the dictionary, you have et dixit, a conjunction with 3rd sg. pf verb. What else
could it mean besides "and it said"?

Smyth did mention such a meaning in 2869a and he gave several references from Xenophon's
Anabasis but it's not an exact reference with line numbers so I don't really know to which
καί he referred.
Nate.
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Re: about kai

Postby Junya » Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:35 pm

O thank you Nate.
. Here καί often = namely, for example, and so where an antecedent statement is explained either by another word or by an example. Cp. X. A. 1.9.14, 4. 1. 19, 5. 2. 9, 5. 6. 8.


I'm not yet on a skill-level where I would check those quotations mentioned only by the passage number without a text. (I have never checked such passages.)
So I had better be content with the explanation, without seeing the e-text of Anabasis.



Why did I think the et might mean namely ?
I thought like this.
vocem (voice) de (from) celo (heaven) me (me) sic (in this way) docentem (instructing) audivi (I heard), et (that is, namely?) dixit (it said) : .....

I heard a voice from heaven instructing me in this manner, that is to say, it said : ....
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Re: about kai

Postby NateD26 » Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:31 pm

Junya wrote:Why did I think the et might mean namely ?
I thought like this.
vocem (voice) de (from) celo (heaven) me (me) sic (in this way) docentem (instructing) audivi (I heard), et (that is, namely?) dixit (it said) : .....

I heard a voice from heaven instructing me in this manner, that is to say, it said : ....

I'm not a native English speaker, but I'm pretty sure this is not proper English.
See some example sentences with namely here.
Nate.
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Re: about kai

Postby Junya » Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:37 pm

Is that so ?
Now I got inconfident with my knowledge of namely and that is to say.
I try asking about those expressions at an English Q&A site.

But I ask you again, adding an important note.
I heard a voice from heaven instructing me in this manner, that is to say, it said : (after this colon what the voice said is written.)
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Re: about kai

Postby Junya » Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:43 pm

I'm sorry.
I was mistaken about et.
As I read on the passage,
This et turned out to be just an ordinary conjunction and.


But, apart from the question on et, tell me if my understanding of namely and that is to say ok (I posted a question about it a few minutes ago, see above).
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