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need help with parse--Lucretius

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need help with parse--Lucretius

Postby hlawson38 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:02 pm

[The context is that Lucretius is praising Epicurus, his authority. I'm proposing a parsing of the hard part. After the parsing, I have a question about the use of the subjunctive in this passage.]

Cuius ego ingressus vestigia dum rationes
persequor ac doceo dictis

Whose tracks I have followed while I pursue and teach his ideas

[ What follows is the hard part. As I understand the idea, it is that every thing created is controlled by a law of nature that forces that created thing to remain just what it is, so long as it may exist, which existence is limited in time. I could not have seen this without the English translation.]

quo quaeque creata
foedere sint, in eo quam sit durare necessum
nec validas valeant aevi rescendere leges.

[Here is my parsing, mostly guesswork.]

quo: "whereby", conjunction
quaeque: "all things", pronoun, neuter, plural, subject of "sint"
creata: "made", adjective, neuter plural, modifies "quaeque"
foedere: "by law", ablative singular
sint: verb, "would exist"
quam: "and how", conjunction
in eo: "by that law", "eo" is a demonstrative pronoun, antecedent is "foedere"
durare: "enduring"; present active infinitive used as a neuter substantive
sint: "would be"
necessum: undeclined adjective, "imperative", predicate adjective, modifies "durare"

[ the remainder is not so hard ]

nec: "nor"
validas . . .aevi. . . leges: "the strong laws of time"
valeant: "would they be strong enough"
rescinder: "to annul", infinitive complement to "valeant"

Much of this passage seems to be indirect discourse, in that Lucretius expounds upon the doctrines of Epicurus. Do I have this right?
hlawson38
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Re: need help with parse--Lucretius

Postby adrianus » Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:49 pm

Hoc dicam (forsit erro):
The traces of whose steps I follow and teach in verse-form, the reasons whereby all things are created in a preset manner, in as much as it is a natural law for things to last, and that the ages will not prevail in annulling sound laws [i.e., time has no effect on the laws of nature].
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: need help with parse--Lucretius

Postby hlawson38 » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:36 pm

Thanks for your translation, Adrianus.

Sorry about the doubly-posted question. It happened by accident.
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Re: need help with parse--Lucretius

Postby adrianus » Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:48 am

That "aevi" can be masculine, nominative plural...
De "aevi" vocabulo masculini generis, pluraliter casu nominativo...

Nunc domi sum et in OLD inquirere possum. Hoc nota adversus 'aeuum' vocabulum:
I'm home and can look in OLD and I see this against the word "aeuum":
OLD adversus 'aeuum' wrote:aeuum ~ī, n. Also ~us. [...] GEND.: masc in PL.Poen.1187; LUCR.2.561; 3.605; CIL 12.2130.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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