NateD26 wrote:C. S. Bartholomew wrote:Eliminating οὐ doesn't alter the meaning.
Would it still be considered proper Greek?
NateD26 wrote:The concept of markedness was new to me, so I thank you for noting it here, and
framing the issue in your linguistic terminology is quite refreshing.
Smyth in his summary of these construction (§2746, 8.) mentions a similar sentence from
Xenophon's Anabasis 3.1.13:
τί ἐμποδὼν μὴ οὐχὶ...ὑβριζομένους ἀποθανεῖν;
What hinders our being put to death ignominiously?
As Smyth writes in parenthesis, this is as if the semantically negative verb is negated,
equivalent to οὐδὲν ἐμποδών, and since the regular construction of such sentences is with
μὴ οὐ, it is kept upon rephrasing.
Another way to rephrase the Sophocles quote would be with a negated imperative,
as Sir Richard C. Jebb, (1907) noted here:
μὴ οὐ, since τί μέλλει is equiv. to “μὴ μελλέτω”: cp. Aesch. P. V. 627
“τί δῆτα μέλλεις μὴ οὐ γεγωνίσκειν τὸ πᾶν;”
Though there are instances with only μὴ after μέλλω as LSJ referenced.
Helikwps wrote:Just to try to follow this thread, does μέλλει ("gonna") contain the negative sense itself of "not yet <action>", or does it become negative ("not yet") by the addition of μὴ? I'm confused by the term 'negative verbs'. Are they a class of verbs in themselves (eg μέλλει, implying "not" <yet> <action>), or are they simple verbs which are made negative by the addition of μὴ (and οὐ). Sorry for the slow-poke understanding of this and thanks.
does μέλλει ("gonna") contain the negative sense itself of "not yet <action>"
C. S. Bartholomew wrote:Don't ask me to explain WHY interrogatives function in this idiom like negative particles, I haven't gotten there yet. Smyth #2742 says the interrogative expects a negative reply but that doesn't work with Ajax line 540.
C. S. Bartholomew wrote:Negative verbs have internal negative semantic component. A negatived (negated) verb has a negative particle attached. A negative verb negated with a particle or interrogative is the prototypical pattern we have been discussing....
According to Cooper, interrogatives function in this idiom like negative particles. So Τί ... μέλλει is negated negative verb followed by μὴ οὐ + infinitive: ...
C. Stirling Bartholomew