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hOI in Iliad 1:104

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hOI in Iliad 1:104

Postby Bert » Sun Nov 23, 2003 1:02 am

[face=SPIonic]pi/mplant', o)/sse de/ oi( puri\ lampeto/wnti e)i/kthn.[/face] I am a little puzzled about [face=SPIonic]oi([/face]. I can't see it belonging to anything except [face=SPIonic]o)/sse[/face]. However [face=SPIonic]o)/sse [/face]is dual and [face=SPIonic]oi([/face] is plural.
Can someone help me out of my puzzlement?

Thank you.
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Postby annis » Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:06 am

That pesky homeric hoi.

This isn't the masculine plural demonstrative. Note the accent on the word before it: [face=spionic]de/ oi([/face]. It's enclitic, and enclitic [face=spionic]oi([/face] is the dative third person singular pronoun: "the eyes to him were like a blazing fire."

Here the dative is acting a bit like a possessive ("his eyes"), which I must say [face=spionic]oi([/face] seems to do a lot.

Section 760 has some more of these forms.

In similar fashion beware of the third person possessive [face=spionic]e(o/j, e(h/, e(o/n[/face]: these can drop the epsilon and look like articles or relative pronouns.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Postby Emma_85 » Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:25 am

I can't work out how to translate hoi in this sentence (Odyssey [face=spionic]z[/face] line 114):

[face=spionic]a)ll' o(/te dh\ a)/r' e)/melle pa/lin oi)~ko/nde ne/esqai[/face]
[face=spionic]zeu/cas' h(mio/nouj ptu/casa/ te ei(/mata kala/,[/face]
[face=spionic]e)/nq' au)~t' a)/ll' e)no/hse qea\ glaukw~pij A)qh/nh,[/face]
[face=spionic]w(s O)duseu\j e)/groito, i)/doi t' eu)w/pida kou/rhn,[/face]
[face=spionic]h(/ oi( Faih/kwn a)ndrw~n po/lin h(gh/saito.[/face]

But when in fact she was about to go home again,
having harnessed the mules and folded the beautiful clothes,
then the bright-eyed goddess Athena thought up this though,
so that Odysseus should awake, and he could see the beautiful maiden,
who by all her Paieken men is thought of as the first in town.

There are probably a few other mistakes I've made, but I really don't understand hoi. Possesive doesn't make much sense, but I have no idea how to translate it here otherwise. At first I thought it was demonstrative, but I couldn't get that to work either :cry: . Or all the men her men because she's a princess? :?
Can someone please tell me how to translate it here and why, I'm really confused now :( .
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Postby Skylax » Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:02 pm

[face=SPIonic]oi([/face] [for [face=SPIonic])Odussei=][/face] Dative after [face=SPIonic]h(gh/saito[/face] meaning "should lead" :

"(the girl) that should lead him (dative) to (accusative without preposition) the city of the Phaeacians."

The passage in German from http://gutenberg.spiegel.de/homer/odyssee/odyss061.htm

"Aber da sie nunmehr sich rüstete, wieder zur Heimfahrt
Anzuspannen die Mäuler, und ihre Gewande zu falten;
Da ratschlagete Zeus' blauäugichte Tochter Athene,
Wie Odysseus erwachte, und sähe die liebliche Jungfrau,
Daß sie den Weg ihn führte zur Stadt der phäakischen Männer. "
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Postby Emma_85 » Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:35 pm

Thanks Skylax!
I was a bit lost I'm afraid. My teacher thought we should be able to translate that sentence in 15 min., and most people in my class manged it in class, too. I was like one of the few who couldn't translate it that fast. So I looked at it again at home, but couldn't remember at all what the right translation was. Can't remember something I don't understand :cry: ...
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Postby Skylax » Mon Jan 12, 2004 9:33 pm

15 MIN ! These German students shoot faster than their shadows ! Using what aids ? (I mean dictionaries, comments...). Didn't the teacher give some clues ?
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