the form "epistasthai"

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arkadi
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the form "epistasthai"

Post by arkadi »

I am wondering if this form can possibly be aorist infinitive middle of "ephiste^mi" in a first century or later text. The grammar books say that "histe^mi" does not have a second aorist middle form. Yet Perseus identifies one meaning of both "stasthai" and "epistasthai" as aorist infinitive middle of "ephiste^mi". Is this a logistics glitch, or a true fact? Thanks in advance for any help.

Emma_85
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Post by Emma_85 »

What grammar book are you using?
ἵστημι has two arorist middle forms.

the indirect medium form is ἐστησάμην
and the direct medium form is ἔστην

arkadi
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Post by arkadi »

"este^same^n" is first aorist middle. "este^n" is second aorist active (intransitive). See Smyth, paragraph 416 (p.138, on top, where the forms of "epriame^n" are supllied in lieu of the missing middle forms of "este^n").

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Re: the form "epistasthai"

Post by Paul »

arkadi wrote:I am wondering if this form can possibly be aorist infinitive middle of "ephiste^mi" in a first century or later text. The grammar books say that "histe^mi" does not have a second aorist middle form. Yet Perseus identifies one meaning of both "stasthai" and "epistasthai" as aorist infinitive middle of "ephiste^mi". Is this a logistics glitch, or a true fact? Thanks in advance for any help.
Hi Arkadi,

It could be present infinitive middle of ἐπίσταμαι.

Can you provide context, i.e., sentence it occurs in?

Cordially,

Paul

arkadi
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Post by arkadi »

Thanks, I know about this possibility, but am exploring another one (if there is any).
The phrase is in a Christian adaptation of Epictetus' _Encheiridion_. In the latter (c. 13) it says: "me^den boulou dokein epistasthai", but the adaptation has just: "me^den boulou epistasthai". I am wondering if a shift in (or, an addition of a complementary) meaning might have been intended here .

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Post by whiteoctave »

it is a present middle infinitive, surely.

=do not wish to be thought to know anything.

or in the simpler version

=do not wish to know anything

~dave

arkadi
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Post by arkadi »

it is a present middle infinitive, surely--of "epistamai". My question is whether it migt also be aorist middle infinitive of "ephiste^mi".

Emma_85
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Post by Emma_85 »

I don't think so, because the infinitive of ἔστην is σταναι
and the infinitive of ἐστησάμην is στησασθαι .
it's ep-istmai, but only the present stem has the iota, the aorist stem doesn't, so this can't really be an aroist.

arkadi
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Post by arkadi »

I believe that the real prefix is "epi-", but its iota merges with the iota of the stem when the latter has one.

Paul
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Post by Paul »

arkadi wrote:it is a present middle infinitive, surely--of "epistamai". My question is whether it migt also be aorist middle infinitive of "ephiste^mi".
Perseus seems to answer your question in the affirmative. See http://perseus.mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de/cgi- ... ex?entry=e)pi/stasqai

Cordially,

Paul

arkadi
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Post by arkadi »

I know, this is precisely why I asked it in the first place :>)
In other words, my question is whether I can trust Perseus in this case, given that it contradicts the textbooks.

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Post by Paul »

Paul wrote:
arkadi wrote:it is a present middle infinitive, surely--of "epistamai". My question is whether it migt also be aorist middle infinitive of "ephiste^mi".
Perseus seems to answer your question in the affirmative. See http://perseus.mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de/cgi- ... ex?entry=e)pi/stasqai
Sorry, but I misspoke. The Perseus link shows that both instances of ἐπίστασθαι are present infinitive middle/passive; neither is an aorist.

To get back to your original question, where in Perseus did you find "one meaning of both 'stasthai' and 'epistasthai' as aorist infinitive middle of 'ephiste^mi'."?

Cordially,

Paul

chad
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Post by chad »

try a different link...

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/morphindex?entry=e)pistasqai

perseus says that

[size=200]ἐπίστασθαι[/size] is pres. inf. mid.
[size=200]ἐπιστάσθαι[/size] is aor. inf. mid.

(both of [size=150]ἐφίστημι[/size])

Emma_85
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Post by Emma_85 »

Hmm... if you say it's definitely epi- (because my dictionary says it's just ep-), but this thread is confusing me... the infinitive of histhmi is stnanai, because it's a root aorist and otherwise the sigma and alpha are missing.
I'd say that maybe Perseus is wrong, although I can't check out the links right now as their digital library is being updated.

arkadi
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Post by arkadi »

Here are Perseus links for "stasthai" and "epistasthai". Both show "aor. inf. mid." as one of the meanings.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/mo ... ormentry=1

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/mo ... ormentry=1

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