Textkit Logo

the form "epistasthai"

Here's where you can discuss all things Ancient Greek. Use this board to ask questions about grammar, discuss learning strategies, get translation help and more!

the form "epistasthai"

Postby arkadi » Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:19 pm

I am wondering if this form can possibly be aorist infinitive middle of "ephiste^mi" in a first century or later text. The grammar books say that "histe^mi" does not have a second aorist middle form. Yet Perseus identifies one meaning of both "stasthai" and "epistasthai" as aorist infinitive middle of "ephiste^mi". Is this a logistics glitch, or a true fact? Thanks in advance for any help.
arkadi
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:02 pm

Postby Emma_85 » Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:58 pm

What grammar book are you using?
[face=spionic]i(/sthmi [/face] has two arorist middle forms.

the indirect medium form is [face=spionic]e)sthsa/mhn [/face]
and the direct medium form is [face=spionic]e)/sthn [/face]
phpbb
User avatar
Emma_85
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1564
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 8:01 pm
Location: London

Postby arkadi » Tue Jan 06, 2004 5:08 pm

"este^same^n" is first aorist middle. "este^n" is second aorist active (intransitive). See Smyth, paragraph 416 (p.138, on top, where the forms of "epriame^n" are supllied in lieu of the missing middle forms of "este^n").
arkadi
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:02 pm

Re: the form "epistasthai"

Postby Paul » Tue Jan 06, 2004 5:35 pm

arkadi wrote:I am wondering if this form can possibly be aorist infinitive middle of "ephiste^mi" in a first century or later text. The grammar books say that "histe^mi" does not have a second aorist middle form. Yet Perseus identifies one meaning of both "stasthai" and "epistasthai" as aorist infinitive middle of "ephiste^mi". Is this a logistics glitch, or a true fact? Thanks in advance for any help.


Hi Arkadi,

It could be present infinitive middle of [face=SPIonic]e)pi/stamai[/face].

Can you provide context, i.e., sentence it occurs in?

Cordially,

Paul
User avatar
Paul
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 701
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 4:47 pm
Location: New York

Postby arkadi » Tue Jan 06, 2004 5:43 pm

Thanks, I know about this possibility, but am exploring another one (if there is any).
The phrase is in a Christian adaptation of Epictetus' _Encheiridion_. In the latter (c. 13) it says: "me^den boulou dokein epistasthai", but the adaptation has just: "me^den boulou epistasthai". I am wondering if a shift in (or, an addition of a complementary) meaning might have been intended here .
arkadi
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:02 pm

Postby whiteoctave » Tue Jan 06, 2004 6:08 pm

it is a present middle infinitive, surely.

=do not wish to be thought to know anything.

or in the simpler version

=do not wish to know anything

~dave
User avatar
whiteoctave
Textkit Enthusiast
 
Posts: 603
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 11:42 pm
Location: Cambridge

Postby arkadi » Tue Jan 06, 2004 6:16 pm

it is a present middle infinitive, surely--of "epistamai". My question is whether it migt also be aorist middle infinitive of "ephiste^mi".
arkadi
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:02 pm

Postby Emma_85 » Tue Jan 06, 2004 9:27 pm

I don't think so, because the infinitive of [face=spionic]e)/sthn [/face] is [face=spionic]stanai [/face]
and the infinitive of [face=spionic]e)sthsa/mhn [/face] is [face=spionic]sthsasqai [/face] .
it's ep-istmai, but only the present stem has the iota, the aorist stem doesn't, so this can't really be an aroist.
phpbb
User avatar
Emma_85
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1564
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 8:01 pm
Location: London

Postby arkadi » Tue Jan 06, 2004 10:29 pm

I believe that the real prefix is "epi-", but its iota merges with the iota of the stem when the latter has one.
arkadi
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:02 pm

Postby Paul » Tue Jan 06, 2004 11:46 pm

arkadi wrote:it is a present middle infinitive, surely--of "epistamai". My question is whether it migt also be aorist middle infinitive of "ephiste^mi".


Perseus seems to answer your question in the affirmative. See http://perseus.mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de/cgi- ... ex?entry=e)pi/stasqai

Cordially,

Paul
User avatar
Paul
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 701
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 4:47 pm
Location: New York

Postby arkadi » Wed Jan 07, 2004 1:05 am

I know, this is precisely why I asked it in the first place :>)
In other words, my question is whether I can trust Perseus in this case, given that it contradicts the textbooks.
arkadi
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:02 pm

Postby Paul » Wed Jan 07, 2004 6:14 am

Paul wrote:
arkadi wrote:it is a present middle infinitive, surely--of "epistamai". My question is whether it migt also be aorist middle infinitive of "ephiste^mi".


Perseus seems to answer your question in the affirmative. See http://perseus.mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de/cgi- ... ex?entry=e)pi/stasqai


Sorry, but I misspoke. The Perseus link shows that both instances of [face=SPIonic]e)pi/stasqai[/face] are present infinitive middle/passive; neither is an aorist.

To get back to your original question, where in Perseus did you find "one meaning of both 'stasthai' and 'epistasthai' as aorist infinitive middle of 'ephiste^mi'."?

Cordially,

Paul
User avatar
Paul
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 701
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2003 4:47 pm
Location: New York

Postby chad » Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:02 am

try a different link...

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/morphindex?entry=e)pistasqai

perseus says that

[face=SPIonic]e0pi/stasqai[/face] is pres. inf. mid.
[face=SPIonic]e0pista/sqai[/face] is aor. inf. mid.

(both of [face=SPIonic]e0fi/sthmi[/face])
chad
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 757
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 2:55 am

Postby Emma_85 » Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:37 am

Hmm... if you say it's definitely epi- (because my dictionary says it's just ep-), but this thread is confusing me... the infinitive of histhmi is stnanai, because it's a root aorist and otherwise the sigma and alpha are missing.
I'd say that maybe Perseus is wrong, although I can't check out the links right now as their digital library is being updated.
phpbb
User avatar
Emma_85
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1564
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 8:01 pm
Location: London

Postby arkadi » Wed Jan 07, 2004 1:16 pm

Here are Perseus links for "stasthai" and "epistasthai". Both show "aor. inf. mid." as one of the meanings.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/mo ... ormentry=1

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/mo ... ormentry=1
arkadi
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:02 pm


Return to Learning Greek

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bedwere and 50 guests