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the form "epistasthai"

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the form "epistasthai"

Postby arkadi » Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:19 pm

I am wondering if this form can possibly be aorist infinitive middle of "ephiste^mi" in a first century or later text. The grammar books say that "histe^mi" does not have a second aorist middle form. Yet Perseus identifies one meaning of both "stasthai" and "epistasthai" as aorist infinitive middle of "ephiste^mi". Is this a logistics glitch, or a true fact? Thanks in advance for any help.
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Postby Emma_85 » Tue Jan 06, 2004 4:58 pm

What grammar book are you using?
[face=spionic]i(/sthmi [/face] has two arorist middle forms.

the indirect medium form is [face=spionic]e)sthsa/mhn [/face]
and the direct medium form is [face=spionic]e)/sthn [/face]
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Postby arkadi » Tue Jan 06, 2004 5:08 pm

"este^same^n" is first aorist middle. "este^n" is second aorist active (intransitive). See Smyth, paragraph 416 (p.138, on top, where the forms of "epriame^n" are supllied in lieu of the missing middle forms of "este^n").
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Re: the form "epistasthai"

Postby Paul » Tue Jan 06, 2004 5:35 pm

arkadi wrote:I am wondering if this form can possibly be aorist infinitive middle of "ephiste^mi" in a first century or later text. The grammar books say that "histe^mi" does not have a second aorist middle form. Yet Perseus identifies one meaning of both "stasthai" and "epistasthai" as aorist infinitive middle of "ephiste^mi". Is this a logistics glitch, or a true fact? Thanks in advance for any help.


Hi Arkadi,

It could be present infinitive middle of [face=SPIonic]e)pi/stamai[/face].

Can you provide context, i.e., sentence it occurs in?

Cordially,

Paul
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Postby arkadi » Tue Jan 06, 2004 5:43 pm

Thanks, I know about this possibility, but am exploring another one (if there is any).
The phrase is in a Christian adaptation of Epictetus' _Encheiridion_. In the latter (c. 13) it says: "me^den boulou dokein epistasthai", but the adaptation has just: "me^den boulou epistasthai". I am wondering if a shift in (or, an addition of a complementary) meaning might have been intended here .
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Postby whiteoctave » Tue Jan 06, 2004 6:08 pm

it is a present middle infinitive, surely.

=do not wish to be thought to know anything.

or in the simpler version

=do not wish to know anything

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Postby arkadi » Tue Jan 06, 2004 6:16 pm

it is a present middle infinitive, surely--of "epistamai". My question is whether it migt also be aorist middle infinitive of "ephiste^mi".
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Postby Emma_85 » Tue Jan 06, 2004 9:27 pm

I don't think so, because the infinitive of [face=spionic]e)/sthn [/face] is [face=spionic]stanai [/face]
and the infinitive of [face=spionic]e)sthsa/mhn [/face] is [face=spionic]sthsasqai [/face] .
it's ep-istmai, but only the present stem has the iota, the aorist stem doesn't, so this can't really be an aroist.
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Postby arkadi » Tue Jan 06, 2004 10:29 pm

I believe that the real prefix is "epi-", but its iota merges with the iota of the stem when the latter has one.
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Postby Paul » Tue Jan 06, 2004 11:46 pm

arkadi wrote:it is a present middle infinitive, surely--of "epistamai". My question is whether it migt also be aorist middle infinitive of "ephiste^mi".


Perseus seems to answer your question in the affirmative. See http://perseus.mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de/cgi- ... ex?entry=e)pi/stasqai

Cordially,

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Postby arkadi » Wed Jan 07, 2004 1:05 am

I know, this is precisely why I asked it in the first place :>)
In other words, my question is whether I can trust Perseus in this case, given that it contradicts the textbooks.
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Postby Paul » Wed Jan 07, 2004 6:14 am

Paul wrote:
arkadi wrote:it is a present middle infinitive, surely--of "epistamai". My question is whether it migt also be aorist middle infinitive of "ephiste^mi".


Perseus seems to answer your question in the affirmative. See http://perseus.mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de/cgi- ... ex?entry=e)pi/stasqai


Sorry, but I misspoke. The Perseus link shows that both instances of [face=SPIonic]e)pi/stasqai[/face] are present infinitive middle/passive; neither is an aorist.

To get back to your original question, where in Perseus did you find "one meaning of both 'stasthai' and 'epistasthai' as aorist infinitive middle of 'ephiste^mi'."?

Cordially,

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Postby chad » Wed Jan 07, 2004 8:02 am

try a different link...

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/morphindex?entry=e)pistasqai

perseus says that

[face=SPIonic]e0pi/stasqai[/face] is pres. inf. mid.
[face=SPIonic]e0pista/sqai[/face] is aor. inf. mid.

(both of [face=SPIonic]e0fi/sthmi[/face])
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Postby Emma_85 » Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:37 am

Hmm... if you say it's definitely epi- (because my dictionary says it's just ep-), but this thread is confusing me... the infinitive of histhmi is stnanai, because it's a root aorist and otherwise the sigma and alpha are missing.
I'd say that maybe Perseus is wrong, although I can't check out the links right now as their digital library is being updated.
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Postby arkadi » Wed Jan 07, 2004 1:16 pm

Here are Perseus links for "stasthai" and "epistasthai". Both show "aor. inf. mid." as one of the meanings.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/mo ... ormentry=1

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/mo ... ormentry=1
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