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Help with Latin Please! "Fore decernimus"

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Help with Latin Please! "Fore decernimus"

Postby Hietanen » Mon May 07, 2012 6:52 pm

Hi, I would like to know the correct translation of this council below, especially the term "fore". Is fore a future term, like "are about to be avoided" or "will be avoided" or is it a more definitive term that is speaking that it will happen now, that is, that they will be avoided now? Please can anyone help me with this? Thanks!

    Latin: “Cumque verum vero minime contradicat, omnem assertionem veritati illuminatae fidei contrariam, omnino falsam esse definimus, et ut aliter dogmatizare non liceat, districtius inhibemus: omnesque huiusmodi erroris assertionibus inhaerentes, veluti damnatissimas haereses seminantes, per omnia, ut detestabiles et abhominabiles haereticos et infideles, catholicam fidem labefactantes, vintandos et puniendos fore decernimus.” (Tanner, Decrees of the Ecumenical Councils, Vol. 1, p. 605)

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Re: Help with Latin Please! "Fore decernimus"

Postby Patruus » Mon May 07, 2012 7:42 pm

The whole paragraph is quoted, translated and analyzed about two-thirds of the way down this page -
http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/Articles/sacraments_from_undeclared_heretics_debate.php
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Re: Help with Latin Please! "Fore decernimus"

Postby Damoetas » Mon May 07, 2012 11:21 pm

I personally don't think the Latin is as decisive as the author of that article maintains. It is also necessary to understand the context and background of the arguments, the mechanisms by which the church makes decisions and institutes discipline, and also the standard language in which decrees are issued. A decree, by its very nature, refers to the future; one would have to check if any additional futurity is intended by the use of fore here. I don't pretend to have a background in these things. Perhaps the author of the article does, but his explanation of the Latin grammar does not address all those possibilities in a way that I would consider conclusive.
Dic mihi, Damoeta, 'cuium pecus' anne Latinum?
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Re: Help with Latin Please! "Fore decernimus"

Postby Craig_Thomas » Tue May 08, 2012 1:59 am

That should be vitandos, not vintandos, and, unless gerundives work differently in Latin of this period, the last part of the sentence means "we decree that they must be shunned and punished". It refers to the future, and also has a sense of obligation.
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