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"Thygater hemon, ..."

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"Thygater hemon, ..."

Postby mingshey » Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:03 pm

I'd like to compose a birth blessing for my daughter.
I'm attending a parents' lesson these weekends and on this coming Saturday I'm supposed to come with one, with which to practice the blessing.

It's supposed to be written in Korean, but I'd like to make a greek version(OR translation), too.

What I'm having in mind is like this.(Okay you laugh at it, but please help me.) :)

Our daughter,
Know that your life began with the stars over the sky,
And that your birth is not a mere coincidence,
And that the stars live in you, with the everlasting light,
And that we live in you forever, with our love.

This is my really really crude attempt. :lol:
[face=SPIonic]
Quga/thr h(mwn,
gnw/qi o(ti kai\ bi/oj sou\ ei)sh=lqe meta ta\ a1stra,
kai\ sou\ ge/nna ou2x e)k sunteu/cidi,
kai ta a)/stra e)/n soi bi/ousi, meta tou\ fw/toj ai)w/niou,
kai\ a)ei/ e)/n soi bio/omen, a)/gape'mwn te.
[/face]
Last edited by mingshey on Wed Nov 26, 2003 1:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby mingshey » Wed Nov 26, 2003 1:01 am

Please someone help me correct the errors and improve it. :idea: :D
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Postby annis » Wed Nov 26, 2003 3:04 am

mingshey wrote:Please someone help me correct the errors and improve it. :idea: :D


Do you need the Greek by this weekend, or is this just for fun on the side?

I need to ponder this more. English to Greek is tricky.

I would say right away though that in the third line I don't have the word you used for "coincidence" in any of my dictionaries, and I don't know why it's a dative after the [face=spionic]e)k[/face]. I would be inclined to use the more basic "chance" here in any case. All the words I can find for "coincidence" in Greek really strongly imply several events happening at the same time, and that's not quite what you're saying here.

I like the Epic phrase [face=spionic]e)j ai)ei/[/face] for "forever" for both sound and simplicity. Perhaps in the fourth line [face=spionic]la/mponta e)j ai)ei/[/face], with the participle agreeing with the stars. You could even use a figura etymologica, [face=spionic]a)stra/ptonta e)j ai)ei/[/face].

But my brain has fixed on this, probably for several days. :)
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Postby annis » Wed Nov 26, 2003 3:09 am

Also, [face=spionic]gnw=qi[/face].
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Postby mingshey » Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:43 am

annis wrote:Do you need the Greek by this weekend, or is this just for fun on the side?


FYI, the greek is not in the emergency. But I'd like it if I can include it in the card. :)

in the third line I don't have the word you used for "coincidence" in any of my dictionaries


Well, the perseus word search gave it to me -- I cannot have a confidence in its results though:
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/en ... oincidence
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/pt ... ry=#101009

and I don't know why it's a dative after the e)k.


my oops! :oops:

I would be inclined to use the more basic "chance" here in any case. All the words I can find for "coincidence" in Greek really strongly imply several events happening at the same time, and that's not quite what you're saying here.


Thanks, and the perseus English-Greek word search doesn't give very clear results, either. :(

Thanks very much for rest of the comments, too! :D
Last edited by mingshey on Wed Nov 26, 2003 7:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: "Thygater hemon, ..."

Postby mingshey » Wed Nov 26, 2003 5:03 am

For "by chance" will "[face=SPIonic]e)k tuxhj[/face]" be okay?
I'm still not sure about the use of enclitic accents, too.

(frequent edits... :))

[face=SPIonic]
Quga/thr h(mw=n,
gnw=qi o(ti kai\ bi/oj sou\ ei)sh=lqe\ meta\ ta a1stra,
kai\ sou\ ge/nna ou2x e)k tu/xhj,
kai ta a)/stra e)/n soi bi/ousi, la/mponta e)j ai)ei/
kai\ a)ei/ e)/n soi bio/omen, a)/gape'mw=n te.
[/face]
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Postby annis » Wed Nov 26, 2003 1:32 pm

A few more random thoughts from pre-caffeinated William:

Daughter should be vocative! And maybe with an [face=spionic]w)=[/face] before it. Sounds silly in English, but there it is.

I am nervous about the definite articles. I spend most of my time in poetry, so an atticist should comment on this, but if feel if you're going to use "the" then you need to say [face=spionic]o( bi/os sou[/face], not just [face=spionic]bi/os sou[/face]. Same with [face=spionic]sou= ge/nna[/face], which should probably have the genitive shifted after the noun, too.
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Re: "Thygater hemon, ..."

Postby Skylax » Wed Nov 26, 2003 2:58 pm

Congratulations to the parents and welcome to the baby (It is the most beautiful baby in the world, it isn't?)

mingshey wrote:Our daughter,
Know that your life began with the stars over the sky,
And that your birth is not a mere coincidence,
And that the stars live in you, with the everlasting light,
And that we live in you forever, with our love.

"your life began with the stars" : I translate as if you mean that your daughter is made of the same matter as the stars (the famous "stardust"), or did you mean that the stars play a role in determining the birth of children (sort of astrological determination)? If so, replace [face=SPIonic]a(/ma toi=j a)stra/sin toi=j[/face] by [face=SPIonic]a)po\ tw=n aste/rwn tw=n[/face]



[face=SPIonic])=W qu/gater h(mw=n,
i)/sq' o(ti me\n o( bi/oj sou a(/ma toi=j a)stra/sin toi=j u(pe\r to\n ou)rano\n a)rxh\n e)/laben,
gennhqh=nai de/ soi ou) tu/xh| tini\ sune/bh
oi( d' a)ste/rej ei)/sw sou zw=si, meta tou= ai)wni/ou fwto/j,
h(mei=j de\ s' a)gapw=ntej ei)/sw sou zh/somen ei)j to\n a)ei\ xro/non.
[/face]


Please everybody, check carefully this text.
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Re: "Thygater hemon, ..."

Postby mingshey » Thu Nov 27, 2003 12:13 am

Thank you, and thank you!
Skylax wrote:"your life began with the stars" : I translate as if you mean that your daughter is made of the same matter as the stars (the famous "stardust"),

Of course. Carl Sagan inspired me of the idea. :D Most elements other than hydrogen are said to be made in the core of previous generation of stars. Of course those details are not necessary for my daughter for the time being. 8)

One question here: if I want to insert the name of my child, shall I put it before the [face=SPIonic]w][/face] or between it and [face=SPIonic]qu/gater[/face]:
[face=SPIonic]Nausika/a, w] qu/gater h(mw=n[/face] or [face=SPIonic] ]W Nausika/a, qu/gater h(mw=n[/face]?
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Postby klewlis » Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:20 pm

the latter.
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Postby mingshey » Sat Nov 29, 2003 12:36 am

Thanks. And now methinks it's more natural than the former. :wink:

Thanks to you all, I have put the words on a card, imitating one of the handwritings of the medieval scribes. And it looks great, though it's not easy to read it since the epsilon looks like sigma and ai looks like ou, etc. I'll have to get used to the handwritings before I can read it aloud fluently. :D
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Postby annis » Sat Nov 29, 2003 1:55 am

mingshey wrote:Thanks to you all, I have put the words on a card, imitating one of the handwritings of the medieval scribes. And it looks great,


Do you have a scanner? or a digital camera?

:)

--
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Postby mingshey » Sat Nov 29, 2003 2:17 am

My digital camera's gone bad but I could manage to take a picture of it somehow, in a couple of days. :)
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Postby mingshey » Sun Nov 30, 2003 11:42 am

I've taken the picture. :D

http://blogimage2.hanmir.com/data2/sub7 ... ygater.jpg
(If you see a "Forbidden" message, try hitting <ENTER>key on the URL bar.
or try here)
It won't look natural since I haven't mastered the hand and 'drew' each character on a pencil draft.
Last edited by mingshey on Mon Dec 01, 2003 5:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby annis » Sun Nov 30, 2003 3:05 pm

:shock:

Wow! That's still a very good copy of that style of hand.

Very nice.
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Postby Skylax » Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:52 pm

What an achievement ! :D
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Postby Kalailan » Sun Nov 30, 2003 7:16 pm

indeed it is a work of art. what a steady hand writing!
is that something that all koreans have? :wink:

i wish my handwriting would be so good!
but on the other hand, i have a good chance of becoming a music teacher this way. all the ones i know have a writing thats sort of a different set of letters... :P
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Postby mingshey » Mon Dec 01, 2003 2:36 am

Thanks, all! :D
And special thanks to Skylax who have almost redone the composition for me.(I think I'll add an acknowledgement list at the back cover ofthe card. ;))
I wish my greek is as good as my hand writing. :P

You'll be curious. Nobody else in the (pre-)parents lesson come up with a birth blessing(or they were shy?) and I decided to pretend neither did I. What a shame. :oops: (Many in these Asian countries are shy in the public.) But then again, it's for my baby, anyway. :P
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