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Aoidoi.org tries PDF

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Aoidoi.org tries PDF

Postby annis » Wed Nov 19, 2003 3:35 pm

I've finally found a LaTeX font for Greek which paints nicely in PDF. The one I use to generate the web pages at Aoidoi.org is very attractive, but when turned into PDF goes all furry and nearly impossible to read.

Here's a quick example of how the PDFs will look: 11 lines of Hesiod. Some of the accents may be wrong - the new font uses a different encoding than the old system. Comments on the vocab and notes formatting are welcome.

In any case, how do people feel about PDF? I mean, would it seriously put people out if I stopped doing web pages with the Greek text?
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
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Postby klewlis » Wed Nov 19, 2003 4:17 pm

I like it. That's the type of thing that I would print.
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Postby annis » Thu Nov 20, 2003 3:12 am

klewlis wrote:I like it. That's the type of thing that I would print.


That's another benefit of the PDF. Right now, printing off a commented poem from the web page would have very blurry greek, assuming it even lined up correctly.

This format is probably the future of Aoidoi's poems. The system I'm using now is too brittle.
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Postby Carola » Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:41 am

I don't think PDF would put anyone off - it's such a common format these days and it prints very well. Sometimes web pages can get a bit garbled if they are not coded exactly right; PDF is always the same and easy to handle. It also saves easier if you just want to keep the document on a CD or disk for reference and not print it. I do that with a lot of the Textkit stuff as I don't always want to have to print out pages, find a folder etc.
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Postby mingshey » Thu Nov 20, 2003 7:29 am

Great!
And the greek font melts well with the latin font.
And I agree with Carola.

:)
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Re: Aoidoi.org tries PDF

Postby mariek » Thu Nov 20, 2003 9:18 am

Can't comment on the Greek since I can't read it. :(

But I think PDF is a good format that many people can still read under various platforms. It has become rather ubiquitous now, so I can't imagine anyone complaining about the switch.
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Postby annis » Thu Nov 20, 2003 1:54 pm

mingshey wrote:And the greek font melts well with the latin font.


The Kerkis Greek and Latin faces were designed to go together, and they do that very well. There are a few things about the Greek face that I don't care for, but it's still worlds better than the annoying curly italics like the old Teubner font.

Perhaps I'll convert some of the larger poems already in place to this. The larger the poem, the more friendly the text with footnotes approach is.

Thanks to all for your comments.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
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Postby benissimus » Thu Nov 20, 2003 8:58 pm

Yes, looks very nice!
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Postby Emma_85 » Mon Nov 24, 2003 5:53 pm

It looks great, and I also think that most people won't be put off by it being in PDF format, as PDF is so practical and most people can open it :D
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Postby annis » Mon Nov 24, 2003 6:13 pm

Emma_85 wrote:It looks great, and I also think that most people won't be put off by it being in PDF format, as PDF is so practical and most people can open it :D


Alrighty, then, how does this work:

Simonides: Danae's Lament.

I'm not entirely sure how I feel about the line numbering, but on the other hand, I really hate counting back and forth to find the right notes in a commentary.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
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Postby vidalf » Tue Nov 25, 2003 3:09 am

how about these fonts instead?
http://users.mark-itt.ru/kalmas/heoxonia.pdf
http://users.mark-itt.ru/kalmas/heoldface.pdf
(the text samples are beginning of Herodotus's Histories from perseus)
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Postby mingshey » Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:43 am

I have a copy of DBG Septuagint which used a really elegant greek font in the foreword. (But they used a somewhat awkward font for the text). but I can't find an equivalent electronic font. It had a [face=SPIonic]r[/face] that's similar to that of Palatino Linotype or TITUS Cyberbit Basic that you can see at http://www.russellcottrell.com/greek/fonts.htm
And I prefer TITUS Cyberbit Basic. :)
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Postby annis » Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:22 pm

vidalf wrote:how about these fonts instead?
http://users.mark-itt.ru/kalmas/heoxonia.pdf


A very standard style of Greek. The OCTs use something in the same family.

The examples are very odd: the accenting is correct, but the non-final sigma is used everywhere.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
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Postby annis » Tue Nov 25, 2003 1:37 pm

mingshey wrote:...TITUS Cyberbit Basic that you can see at http://www.russellcottrell.com/greek/fonts.htm
And I prefer TITUS Cyberbit Basic. :)


Ooh. I've never seen a Caslon style of Greek. Not sure the gamma is good. The lower psi is very odd, too.

The TITUS Cyberbit is nice, though it has the kappa I hate, but at least it isn't slanted. Slanting Greek fonts (like the ubiquitous Porson of the OCTs) irritate me for some reason.

The Aristarchos is a nice slanted face, though I think the final sigma is too heavy, and that the Gentium Alt has a better one.

Alas, setting up a TrueType font to work in LaTeX is still such an annoyance that I've not yet felt up to it. As a Unix geek I live in constant danger of becoming distracted by the interesting technology of making a web site on Classical Greek poetry, and not accomplishing any actual reading of Greek. :) So I'll hold off for a bit longer.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
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Postby vidalf » Tue Nov 25, 2003 2:02 pm

As a matter of fact my samples are produced with latex, using psgreek package. Most good fonts from mingshey's link are included there (at least they look alike).
Although this method does not use any ttf, it requires one to use betacode-like system (very unstandard) to typeset greek text. To work this over I have made some python scripts to convert from unicode or perseus' betacode into the format required by psgreek. Although final sigma autoconversion was supported, I think I have broken something just recently...

These two fonts are indeed looking similar but oxonia has way better kerning, while oldface has more stylish capitals that are not italic, which imho looks better. This is also how it looks in FGB's greek face.
I wish I could bring those capitals into oxonia somehow...
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Postby annis » Tue Nov 25, 2003 9:39 pm

vidalf wrote:As a matter of fact my samples are produced with latex, using psgreek package. Most good fonts from mingshey's link are included there (at least they look alike).


Ah! I'd seen psgreek but for some reason assumed it would only work on a particular PC version of TeX. I'll have to look into this more.

Although this method does not use any ttf, it requires one to use betacode-like system (very unstandard) to typeset greek text. To work this over I have made some python scripts to convert from unicode or perseus' betacode into the format required by psgreek.


I've done the same, actually. That's funny.

At least Ibycus4 uses something very much like betacode. The babel encoding (m~hnin >'aeide je'a) is annoying, but I'm getting used to it.

Thanks for the info!
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
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Postby mingshey » Wed Nov 26, 2003 12:58 am

annis wrote:The TITUS Cyberbit is nice, though it has the kappa I hate,


Oh, you hate that kappa. It looks like an italic "x", somewhat irritating, though I began to like it for no reason. :wink:
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