Tutorial/summary Request

[benissimus]

I am curious to know exactly how Latin poetry (and Greek, though I can't read it yet) actually are organized and function. I have a lot of comments (especially by Elucubrator) about the length patterns for words and such, and the different arrangements (i.e. hendecasyllabic, dactylic), but I am still incredibly vague on what it actually is. So, could someone please either direct me to a site or article (or write a tutorial) so I can understand this better?<br /><br /><br />[face=SPIonic][size=18=9]<br />Not sure if this belongs in this forum, but I didn't want to limit it to just Latin.[/face][/size]

[annis]

This is for Greek: http://www.aoidoi.org/articles/meter/intro.php<br /><br />Rather than rhyme, or patterns of stress, Greek poetry is based on patters of long and short syllables. <br /><br />If you google on "dactylic hexameter" you should get several good pages explaining how that works in Latin.<br />

[Milito]

Bennett has a section on poetic grammar, at least, in his "New Latin Grammar" (and, I presume, in his just plain "Latin Grammar" on Textkit). How thoroughly or well it goes into the subject, I can't tell you, as I haven't had opportunity or inclination to dig into it that deeply, I'm afraid..... <br /><br />Kilmeny

[Keesa]

One of the Greek tutorials-it may still be the only one-had something to say about Greek poetry/meter, I think. I read it, but it was over my head, so I'm not really sure. ;D<br /><br />Keesa

[vinobrien]

I still have a problem with this. I've read the texts and I can accurately but mechanically scan a line in Latin or Greek but, to be honest, I just can't feel the rhythm. <br /><br />I have a degree in English Literature and I play the drums (no jokes please) and have no problem with the stressed/ qualitative rhythms of English of whatever period, but the quantitative rhythms of Latin and Greek leave me feeling deaf. <br /><br />I have probably raised this in an earlier thread (but life is short): my Greek (by origin) Greek teacher approached lines mechanically but my Latin teacher over the summer, who was Japanese(!) said she could feel the rhythm because her language had long and short syllables (again !). <br /><br />Does anyone else have the same problem or am I just not hearing the beat? ???

[Emma_85]

The thing with Latin poetry is that it's all long and short syllables. There are certain rules you can learn (and should be learning if you want to get it right), for the beginning I would suggest you take a pencil and go through each line and work out which syllables are short and which ones long, and then read the poem aloud. After doing that a few times you should be able to read the easier lines without doing all that, but IMHO it just takes a lot of practise. The more poetry you read (and try to read properly) the better you get at it.<br />I wasn't very good at ready Latin poetry at first, but after 3 years of practice...well I'm not too bad now...

[benissimus]

Maybe I'm not completely tone-deaf... I can see the rhythm in the "Non amo te, Sabidi..." poem, but that's only because I knew the tune of the English version. :-\

[annis]

[quote author=vinobrien link=board=6;threadid=590;start=0#5544 date=1063032298]<br />Does anyone else have the same problem or am I just not hearing the beat? ???<br />[/quote]<br /><br />What text are you using for practice? The hexameter and the pentameter can change so much that it's hard to get a feel for these.<br /><br />Start with something in an aeolic meter. Simple Catullus or Horace for Latin would do. Some Sappho for Greek. Anacreontics, though often trite, have a very recognizable meter.<br /><br />I will make bold to offer my own web site: http://www.aoidoi.org/texts/sappho/sap-2.php has a very short bit of Sappho - four lines - in a fixed aeolic meter. It is a charming little poem, too. It might even be complete.<br /><br />Once you can handle these meters which change little from line to line you can move on to the hexameter, which changes a lot.

[vinobrien]

Thanks for that, William, Anacreon I have always found the easiest to hear, but I suspect that is because I am substituting a qualitative for a quantitative metre when I read. trying to make that substitution with Virgil or Homer tends to be unsuccessful very quickly. I will do as you suggest.