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Bookbinding

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Bookbinding

Postby mingshey » Tue Aug 26, 2003 4:55 am

I'm living quite away from any college or univ. and there's no book-binding shop in the vicinity. So I usually come up binding the printed papers myself.<br /><br />I tried several methods, stapling, stitching(with thin electrical wires), punch and ring, using adhesives(pale-wellow stinking cenent, or less stinking epoxy, etc), repkover-like covers, etc. I started this ever since I got an old paperback RSV bible of which the cover was ragged -- I removed the old cover,<br />and having some used pieces of cardboard paper, attached front and back covers, and bridged them with a backbone piece.<br />Later I preferred letting bookbinding shops do the job. But my geographical situation makes this hardly availible.<br /><br />So I'm looking for a nice binding adhesive for home book-binding. Kind of heat-melting glue will do, tiny plastic chips that melts at under 400F, which can be handled with hot irons. But I had read on some web sites that this kind of heat glues are not strong enough in adhesive power.--well, perhaps depends on manufacturer.<br /><br />Tell me anybody your experience with book-binding, or any suggestions.<br />
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby Keesa » Tue Aug 26, 2003 11:27 am

I've actually handsewn several books for Christmas presents for my sister, and I'm working on a couple for my cousins, so the closest I could come was "I run a bookbinding shop" (although I actually don't. I should, though. I wish they had more books like the old ones. Even the hardcovers today are not so beautiful!). <br /><br />I used to use glue, but now I prefer perforating small sections of the book to be bound with an awl and sewing it up. I haven't yet decided how I'll attach the signatures, since I haven't printed the whole book yet. Probably I'll cover heavy-duty cardboard with cloth (both sewn and glued!) and glue the signatures to the cover. I've actually been known to embroider the cloth before attaching it to the cardboard; it makes for a beautiful and unique book. <br /><br />Keesa
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby klewlis » Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:20 pm

i've never tried to print out a whole book but if i did i would most likely be using duotangs to keep it bound...<br /><br />i'm a huge fan of duotangs.
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby Keesa » Tue Aug 26, 2003 12:24 pm

I've never heard of them. What are they?<br /><br />Keesa
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby mingshey » Tue Aug 26, 2003 1:04 pm

First time to hear "duotang", and rummaging the web I found this quote:<br /><br />
PS what's a duotang??<br /><br />...<br /><br />hey listener! a duotang is a little folio/folder where students store their papers for the term...a paper cover and 3 metal prongs to hold the punched paper
<br /><br />That's what I keep some of the print-outs. (It's known as "three holes binder, or "Ring Binder"" or stuff like that in my homeland. It's my lack of vocabulary--I had to replace "Duotangs" for "Ring Binders"). It takes too much space, though.<br />
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby Emma_85 » Tue Aug 26, 2003 1:06 pm

i'm not too sure what duotangs are, either. i have a few things lying around which i suppose someone might call duotangs (they are big sort of clips). maybe that's what they are. word doesn't know the word either ;)<br /><br />i don't print e books out, but i was going to bind them myself, i would use staples. the only thing i can think of that is quick and easy (as long as you have a good stapler). i couldn't be bothered honestly to stitch up books..
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby Keesa » Tue Aug 26, 2003 1:14 pm

I have the time and the practice for stitching the books, so it's not really a bother for me. And I do like the way they look when I'm done with them! <br /><br />I have a sort of strange love/hate relationship with paperbacks; they're cheap, so I can buy them (that's a good thing!), but really...they're neither attractive nor particularly durable. (Although, I have managed to read "Emma" six or seven times without creasing the binding...) If we could have the accessibility of paperbacks with the beauty of a linenbound hardcover (NOT the modern cardboard hardcover!) then life would be perfect... <br /><br />Keesa
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby klewlis » Tue Aug 26, 2003 1:20 pm

[quote author=mingshey link=board=6;threadid=552;start=0#4932 date=1061903060]<br />hey listener! a duotang is a little folio/folder where students store their papers for the term...a paper cover and 3 metal prongs to hold the punched paper[/i]
<br /><br />That's what I keep some of the print-outs. (It's known as "three holes binder, or "Ring Binder"" or stuff like that in my homeland. It's my lack of vocabulary--I had to replace "Duotangs" for "Ring Binders"). It takes too much space, though.<br /><br />[/quote]<br /><br />I guess they're like binders, sort of, except binders tend to be larger and plastic with round metal rings, whereas duotangs are just very thick paper (like posterboard) and they don't have metal rings for the paper, just flexible metal strips that you stick through the holes and then fold on the other side to hold it in... does that make sense? :)
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby Keesa » Tue Aug 26, 2003 1:24 pm

Yes, it does! It's a good idea, too. How do they hold up? I would think that the cardboard would be subject to a lot of wear and tear...<br /><br />Keesa
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby mingshey » Tue Aug 26, 2003 1:28 pm

I guess they're like binders, sort of, except binders tend to be larger and plastic with round metal rings, whereas duotangs are just very thick paper (like posterboard) and they don't have metal rings for the paper, just flexible metal strips that you stick through the holes and then fold on the other side to hold it in... does that make sense? :)
<br /><br />I see now; my first guess, but I wasn't sure. I've seen the metal strips sold only separately from the paper folders.<br /><br />(Number five is my vote. Chiefly to avoid poll request each time I view this thread. :))
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby klewlis » Tue Aug 26, 2003 1:31 pm

[quote author=Keesa link=board=6;threadid=552;start=0#4940 date=1061904287]<br />Yes, it does! It's a good idea, too. How do they hold up? I would think that the cardboard would be subject to a lot of wear and tear...<br /><br />Keesa<br />[/quote]<br /><br />well you know, they don't last forever but are cheap if you need to replace them.<br /><br />in college i had one for each class and put all of my class notes in them... so now i have a shelf full of class notes in duotangs for easy reference... good stuff.
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby Emma_85 » Tue Aug 26, 2003 1:42 pm

lol, now i understand, too.<br />didn't know what you were taking about at all... :-P<br /><br />i don't really care if i get a book in hardback or paperback. i mean i normally just go for the cheapest, but i don't take good care of my books either. if they enter my school bag, well... they will come out and hopefully still be readable. that's all i care about... if it's still useable or not. i don't go around creasing pages in my book on purpose, it just happens.<br />lol, you should see my copy of socrates' apology... it's full of comments and everything is underlined in different colours and it has seen the rain more than once...
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby mariek » Tue Aug 26, 2003 3:59 pm

<br />If I have the time, I might print out an entire book, hole punch it, and put it into a 3-ring binder. I don't do that much because it takes up a lot of space.<br /><br />For BLD, I've only printed about the first 90 pages. I've stapled them into 30 page packets to make it easier to carry with me to/from work.<br /><br />The "duotang" idea sounds very much like the double-prong fasteners in those report covers I used to use in school. I've never thought of using those, but I suppose they'd be fine for shorter books. I don't think they're made to hold a huge stack of papers, and if they did, what would give it enough support to hold together? Would three long thin strips of metal do the job? Would it hold a 6 inch stack of paper?<br /><br />
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby klewlis » Tue Aug 26, 2003 7:42 pm

6 inches would be too much. i think the thickest one i have is about an inch, though it might handle more.
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby Raya » Tue Aug 26, 2003 8:15 pm

I tend to keep everything digitally, only printing sections that I need - and those on scrap paper! When it comes to keeping those together, I am the Paperclip Queen...<br /><br />However, in the course of my IB, I had to turn in a printed copy of my 140-page Visual Arts Research Workbook (they refused to accept a CD >:(). To keep that in order, I used a flip file. These are books with clear plastic sleeves for pages - a bit like photo albums - you place pages in the sleeves and then you can read through them like a book. Very convenient! (even if I needed 2 of the largest ones for my VARK!)
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby Milito » Tue Aug 26, 2003 11:37 pm

[quote author=Keesa link=board=6;threadid=552;start=0#4940 date=1061904287]<br />Yes, it does! It's a good idea, too. How do they hold up? I would think that the cardboard would be subject to a lot of wear and tear...<br /><br />Keesa<br />[/quote]<br /><br />I learned to know and hate duotangs in high school. The cardboard and the metal clips hold up fine. Unless you bend or unbend the metal too much, in which case it breaks. But this takes a while.<br /><br />The paper you're keeping in them, however, is another matter. The metal bits are flat, and, from the paper's point of view, sharp. You therefore have to invest in those little re-inforced glue-back paper rings ("donut seeds"....) to repair the damage after the punched hole in the paper has worn through. Which takes far less time than it should.<br /><br />Then there is the problem of insertion in the middle. Duotangs won't let you. You have to open them up and remove all the paper to the point where you need to do the insertion, thus adding to the wear on the un-reinforced paper holes....<br /><br />Finally, duotangs aren't able to hold a really major amount of paper. The little metal tabs are only maybe three-quarters of an inch long, so subtract from that about 3/16 of an inch to bend over to hold things in place, and another 1/8 of an inch or so of the cardboard from the top cover that they have to go through as well, and you're not left with a lot of room for large quantities of paper.....<br /><br />My! I didn't realize I still harboured so much annoyance toward duotangs! But they do come in large colour selections.... occasionally even pink!<br /><br />Kilmeny
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby Alundis » Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:23 am

I've never printed an entire ebook, but if I wanted to I would try to find an industrial strength stapler. A $10 stapler would not be sufficient.
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby Carola » Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:27 am

If I want to print out the books I print 2 pages to a sheet on scrap paper (our office supplies enough to print an encyclopaedia every week!) then cut page in half and store in a A5 size ring binder (half A4 size). This means you can read it in a bus or in bed without being crushed under A & G. Most of the time I just copy the files onto CD's and use them when I need them. My PDA is OK for text files but there isn't enough room for big PDF files - however I am sure this will change over the next few years as computers get smaller and their memories get bigger. Soon we will be carrying around all our favourite books around in something the size of a diary. But you still can't beat the feel of an old book, printed on the beautiful light paper they used in the 19th century! Heaven!
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby mingshey » Wed Aug 27, 2003 2:00 am

One of the printers support two sided print-out. So I print four pages on a sheet -- two pages on a side. And there's the booklet option that you print a small volume, for example 40 pages on 10 sheets, and then fold the whole in half to get a booklet (don't need to cut and rearrange). Only, staple the backbone not to let it go apart.<br />I'm goint to print out the woodhouse english-greek dictionary by 40-pages units with this facillity. ;D<br /><br />P.S.<br />I'll go look for A5 binders, too. ;D
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby Carola » Wed Aug 27, 2003 10:57 pm

[quote author=mingshey link=board=6;threadid=552;start=15#5005 date=1061949616]<br />I'll go look for A5 binders, too. ;D<br />[/quote]<br />****<br />Yes, they are getting quite difficult to find - we have an office supplies shop near us that still stocks them but I don't see them in Kmart etc any more. I should see if I can design something myself - you must be able to buy the "D" ring clips somewhere. I like reading and studying in the "supine" position ;) Those larger folders are just too clumsy and fall over all the time. Maybe I should design a stand for my laptop so it hangs over me while I lie in the garden......hmmm.
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby Episcopus » Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:43 pm

I staple together 20-25 page parts of Latin For Beginners, printed out 1 page per sheet in real size.<br /><br />It is not at all economical but thus it looks as if I have done much work ;D
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby mariek » Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:37 pm

You can also see if you have one of those "industrial" type staplers at work or school which uses longer staples and allows you to staple thicker stacks of paper. We have one of those at work. ;D
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby mariek » Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:40 pm

[quote author=Episcopus link=board=6;threadid=552;start=15#5253 date=1062600187]<br />I staple together 20-25 page parts of Latin For Beginners, printed out 1 page per sheet in real size.[/quote]<br /><br />Ah, but this is no longer necessary for you finally own a fine copy of D'Ooge's exalted work.
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby mingshey » Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:33 pm

[quote author=mariek link=board=6;threadid=552;start=15#5263 date=1062603423]<br />You can also see if you have one of those "industrial" type staplers at work or school which uses longer staples and allows you to staple thicker stacks of paper. We have one of those at work. ;D<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Surely a nice choice if you have it in the office. But sounds like a luxury if you are to buy one for home use. ;) One thing about staplers, big or small, is the staple goes wriggled on somewhat thick stack of papers. For the print papers are of the stiffer breed. And this requires many staples wasted in the course of attack. :'( This is worse for the big staples, not because it is weaker, but because you use it on thicker stack of paper. But still, it's the quickest way to bind papers, let alone the big paper clips I sometimes used temporarily before I take the stack of paper to the bookbinding shop. (Not the coiled wires, but the [face=SPIonic]S[/face]-shaped steel jaws with hinged handles.)
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby Episcopus » Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:39 pm

[quote author=mariek link=board=6;threadid=552;start=15#5264 date=1062603642]<br /><br />Ah, but this is no longer necessary for you finally own a fine copy of D'Ooge's exalted work. <br />[/quote]<br /><br />I do indeed - however it is in a kind of shrine, safely wrapped in bubble wrapping. Occasionally I read through it.
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby mariek » Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:26 pm

[quote author=mingshey link=board=6;threadid=552;start=15#5267 date=1062606815]<br />But still, it's the quickest way to bind papers, let alone the big paper clips I sometimes used temporarily before I take the stack of paper to the bookbinding shop. (Not the coiled wires, but the [face=SPIonic]S[/face]-shaped steel jaws with hinged handles.)<br />[/quote]<br /><br />Oh, you mean binder clips. I use those too, and then get fed up when I end up damaging the top sheet. I seem to keep everything "cleaner" with staples. I had a huge stack of papers that were attached in three parts by BIG binder clips. I finally go so fed up with it that last night I sat down and hole punched them all before putting them into a 3-ring binder. Of course, the downside to keeping BIG binders is ... where do you keep them all? <br />
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby Keesa » Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:27 pm

[quote author=mariek link=board=6;threadid=552;start=15#5280 date=1062620806]<br /><br />Of course, the downside to keeping BIG binders is ... where do you keep them all? <br /><br />[/quote]<br /><br />Oh, that's easy. Simply pile them in the middle of the desk when you're not using it, then shift them to the floor when you need to use the desk. Move them under the couch when you have company, and you have an efficient three-part system for storing large office supplies, neatly. ;)<br /><br />Keesa
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby Carola » Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:55 am

[quote author=Keesa link=board=6;threadid=552;start=15#5286 date=1062628056]<br /><br />Oh, that's easy. Simply pile them in the middle of the desk when you're not using it, then shift them to the floor when you need to use the desk. Move them under the couch when you have company, and you have an efficient three-part system for storing large office supplies, neatly. ;)<br /><br />Keesa<br />[/quote]<br />Yes, but the desk is overloaded with other jobs I'm meaning to do, the floor contains enough musical instruments to start a band and the rest of the house is full of husband's PA & lighting equipment....<br />Perhaps I should buy a tent and put it up in the back yard so I have somewhere to work!<br />
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby mariek » Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:21 pm

I have the same problem as you. I have piles of books, binders, and other items scattered all over the place on tables and on the floor. All the more reason NOT to print out books. But I much prefer reading something on paper than on my computer screen. So the only alternative I would have is to do as someone suggested above, that is, to print several pages on one sheet of paper, and also use the backside. That will save paper and make for a thinner binder. But I'm not sure whether my printer has that functionality. Do any of you know whether I can do that on an HP printer (5SIMX, 8000N, 8100N, 8150N, and similar HP Laserjet flavours)
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby Keesa » Thu Sep 04, 2003 10:41 pm

I...don't...know.... :( My printer is a Lexmark; I can print more than one page onto a sheet of paper, if I use the right program (Publisher lets me, I think), but I can't just put a piece of paper into the printer and have it print on both sides. To do that, I have to print out one page at a time, take the paper, turn it over, print the next page, repeat, KTL. ( ;D) It makes for a long day at the printer, but it saves paper. It also makes for a lot of pages being printed out upside-down, when I don't put the sheet back in just right. ;D <br /><br />Keesa
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby mingshey » Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:04 am

But I'm not sure whether my printer has that functionality. Do any of you know whether I can do that on an HP printer
<br /><br />To use the backside when your printer doesn't have the ability,<br />and to print several pages on a side, at first <br /><br /># you print the book to a file-several pages on a side, utilizing some of the softwares that enables printing to a pdf file. there are ad-wares like pfd995. Textkit also supplies printer friendly versions of some books for two-on-one side printing-then you can skip this step.<br /># Then open the pdf file again and print even pages first -- with reversed order. (If your printer driver isn't capable of separating odd and even pages, then use ghostview to do it.)<br /># Then flip the whole stack and manual feed the printer, then print the odd pages in normal order on the backside. <br /><br />If it's not certain, do some practice before you mass-print the whole book.
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby tdominus » Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:27 pm

Whether your printer can do it depends on the software the printer comes with, including the printer drivers. You should be able to access such options in the printer's properties section. In most applications it is something like file->print->printer .
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby Keesa » Fri Sep 05, 2003 10:31 pm

Does anyone know how to change the color of the text in a .pdf file, so that you can print off black text, for example, in dark blue? We're out of black ink, and haven't been to the city in a while...<br /><br />Keesa
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby klewlis » Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:55 pm

you can't change the colour in a pdf unless you have a pdf generation tool (ie: Acrobat or something compatible)<br /><br />you should be able to adjust your printer settings though to print the black as if it's blue...
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby Keesa » Thu Sep 11, 2003 12:28 am

[quote author=klewlis link=board=6;threadid=552;start=30#5387 date=1062806156]<br />you should be able to adjust your printer settings though to print the black as if it's blue... <br />[/quote]<br /><br />Mmm...unfortunately, by the time I figure out how to do that, I'll have bought new ink. ;D Technology is not my strong point. <br /><br />I actually managed to change the color of the font within a pdf document, but only on the screen-it was still printing out black, or trying to. <br /><br />
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby mariek » Fri Sep 12, 2003 7:22 am

I'm rather judicious when it comes to color printouts. I would never print out hundreds of pages of a book in color! That would be a waste of expensive ink cartridges ... which is still "painful" if I use the color printer at work. Black & White is perfectly fine for me.<br /><br />Now if it's a pretty color picture of something, then sure, I'll print it in color...
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Re:Bookbinding

Postby Keesa » Fri Sep 12, 2003 12:26 pm

Believe me, I prefer black and white! (Except for color pictures, of course.) But I still have color ink in my printer, and I don't have black ink. :P For the time being, I've been reading my lessons on the computer, but when I print them out, I can make notes in the margins. It's very helpful.
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