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Getting back up to speed

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Getting back up to speed

Postby Jeff Tirey » Thu May 20, 2004 11:55 am

Hi everyone - some of you might have notice my lack of participation and activity on Textkit these past few weeks. I moved homes this month and with the move was a real backlog of work that I'm slowly getting on top of.

But I'm happy to say the scanner is buzzing away right now. Currently being scanned is the long overdue Ovid Reader, Sidgwick's Greek Prose Composition and also Sidgwick's Greek Verse Composition Key (i don't yet have the textbook for that). I literally have a box full of other books that are already photocopied that need my attention as well - this should be a very productive summer for Textkit book postings.

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Postby JuliaP » Thu May 20, 2004 12:31 pm

And there was much rejoicing!

Thank you Jeff, for all you do.
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Postby eris » Thu May 20, 2004 3:03 pm

Thanks for all your hard work, Jeff!

Is there anything that textkit members can do? I have access to several large libraries at the university, a photocopier, scanner, and adobe acrobat 6.0 if there are particular books that you would like to add to the textkit collection. I'm willing to donate time to help a great cause!
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Postby Jeff Tirey » Thu May 20, 2004 3:30 pm

Eris,

there's always things to do :) I see Textkit as a group effort. The site would be a much different place without all the support we get. Some of a very best content has been sent in my supporters.

Which library are you near? We're looking for a pre 1923 copy of Sidgwick's Greek Verse Composition.

Also, get your library of department to give us a link - links really help with search engine listings. We're finally #1 for "Learn Latin" which is our very best referrer.

thanks,
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Postby eris » Thu May 20, 2004 3:48 pm

Jeff,

I live about 5 minutes from the University of Kansas. Here's a link to the library search engine

http://catalog.lib.ku.edu/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?DB=local&PAGE=First

When I did a search for Arthur Sidgwick, I saw some entries for Greek PROSE composition (1876 & 1878, and with exercises 1887), not Greek VERSE composition. I don't know if PROSE & VERSE are the same book or not. There are other Sidgwick books available as well.

I can also obtain books from other universities through library loan. It takes about a month for the books to arrive here.

Let me know if these books are what you want.

Cheers!
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Postby Jeff Tirey » Thu May 20, 2004 5:06 pm

Your library has a very fine collection of gramamrs.

Yes the two are different books, the full title is:

Introduction to Greek Verse Composition by Author Sigwick and F.D. Morice. It'll be published by Rivingston. The modern Duckworth reprints we cannot accept.

Does anyone have an opinion about this grammar here by Sonnenschein.

http://catalog.lib.ku.edu/cgi-bin/Pwebr ... 5918&SID=1

thanks,
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Postby eris » Thu May 20, 2004 6:38 pm

Jeff,

I search WorldCat for your book. Very few libraries own it.

For the 1884, 2nd Ed (Rivingtons), there is a copy at Harvard and Wellesley College.

For the 1885, 3rd Ed (Rivingtons), Harvard and Princeton own one.

For the 1895, 6th Ed (Longman, Green, & Co), Smith College and the University of Texas-Austin have a copy.

I will try to borrow the 3rd Ed.
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Postby Jeff Tirey » Thu May 20, 2004 7:15 pm

thanks so much for your help - it'll be good to have both textbook and key. Finding one is hard - finding both is very difficult. Most of the keys have been sent in by a site supporter from Australia.

thanks again,
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Postby eris » Thu May 20, 2004 7:47 pm

So what is the best way of sending you the copy of the book? Do you wish to have a hard copy or will scanned pages in a pdf file be ok?

I'll let you know when I actually receive the book!
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Postby Barrius » Thu May 20, 2004 8:05 pm

Jeff,

I'll be copying a few books myself this coming week for you, I also will have a clean copy of A & G Shorter Latin Grammar, Ginn & Company (1897) in a few days. Would you like it as well, or do you already have a copy?
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Postby Barrius » Thu May 20, 2004 8:29 pm

eris wrote:I will try to borrow the 3rd Ed.


There's also a copy of An Introduction to Greek Verse Composition With Exercises from Alibris:
London Longmans, Green and Co. 1918 Cloth Very Good. No Jacket 12mo-over 6 3/4 "-7 3/4 " tall. "The object of this book is to take the learner through all the stages of Greek verse compostion, from the first rudiments till he has reached a fair proficiency in turning into Greek Iambics and average piece of English dramatic poetry. " 235pp. Keywords: Poetry GREEK COMPOSITION GRAMMAR
for $14.95 + shipping

http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?ac=sl&st=sl&qi=xywpaslnWHOOmhee57SntEcEiR0_7267941141_2:6:10
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Postby tdominus » Fri May 21, 2004 3:46 am

Jeff,
are there any other particular works that you are looking for?

I have access to all these books, and may be able to find help from others interested in preserving + promoting the classics

http://www.nla.gov.au/catalogue/

also out of curiousity, how many people search for learn latin per month?
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Postby Kasper » Fri May 21, 2004 4:18 am

Apart from Greek verse composition books, are there any latin verse composition books available?
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Postby Jeff Tirey » Fri May 21, 2004 12:05 pm

Kasper wrote:Apart from Greek verse composition books, are there any latin verse composition books available?


there are many, here's one of my favorite sources for discovering what Greek and Latin textbooks are available:

http://classicsteacher.co.uk/latin_vers ... sition.htm
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Postby Jeff Tirey » Fri May 21, 2004 12:11 pm

tdominus wrote:Jeff,
are there any other particular works that you are looking for?

I have access to all these books, and may be able to find help from others interested in preserving + promoting the classics

http://www.nla.gov.au/catalogue/

also out of curiousity, how many people search for learn latin per month?


We're always looking for quality beginners Latin content such as readers. Those are popular. I'm not really picky, I try to convert what people want and will use. I also don't always know what's best, so I'm most open for suggestions on areas where we could strengthen or round out or content.

I often need help with textbooks with keys because keys are so rare. Answer keys are important because they are most helpful for the independent learners. I would have to check but I think there are many more Latin books by North and Hillard and Hillard and Botting with keys that we don't have.

Last month, the Learn Latin page was viewed by just under 10,000 unique visitors. The search term 'learn latin' brought in 1900 uniques. But there are many other combinations which do well too, such as learn latin free, learn latin online, learn latin online free, learn latin for free online and on and on.

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Postby Jeff Tirey » Fri May 21, 2004 12:18 pm

eris wrote:Jeff,

I search WorldCat for your book. Very few libraries own it.

For the 1884, 2nd Ed (Rivingtons), there is a copy at Harvard and Wellesley College.

For the 1885, 3rd Ed (Rivingtons), Harvard and Princeton own one.

For the 1895, 6th Ed (Longman, Green, & Co), Smith College and the University of Texas-Austin have a copy.

I will try to borrow the 3rd Ed.


That would rock! thank you.
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Postby Jeff Tirey » Fri May 21, 2004 12:21 pm

Barrius wrote:Jeff,

I'll be copying a few books myself this coming week for you, I also will have a clean copy of A & G Shorter Latin Grammar, Ginn & Company (1897) in a few days. Would you like it as well, or do you already have a copy?


No I don't have a copy. I saw this for the very first time up for auction on ebay this week is that the copy?

how many pages is it? I would indeed like to have a copy. I have already a photocopy of the school grammar of Gildersleeve's Latin Grammar - but I still can't find the full version. Anyone see it? I also now have Buck's Latin Grammar, but that's not a very high priority at the moment.

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Postby Barrius » Fri May 21, 2004 12:43 pm

jeff wrote:No I don't have a copy. I saw this for the very first time up for auction on ebay this week is that the copy?

how many pages is it? I would indeed like to have a copy.


That was it. The seller did not state how many pages, but a search notes that it should be approximately 371 pages. It should arrive this coming week, and I'll copy it asap. I also found out that home copiers/scanners are worthless for this - now I understand what you mean by making a copy from a real copier first.
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Postby Barrius » Fri May 21, 2004 1:03 pm

jeff wrote:I have already a photocopy of the school grammar of Gildersleeve's Latin Grammar - but I still can't find the full version. Anyone see it?


What is the difference between versions?

Gildersleeve, B.l.
Gildersleeve's latin Grammar Third Edition
Boston: D.C. Heath and Co, 1894 Cloth. No Jacket. 5 1/2" x 7 1/2". This hardcover treasure book is in good condition, showing some signs of age and wear, as one can see in the photo. The binding is solid, with no missing or loose pages. Clean copy, from a smoke free environment. Front end paper the inscriptionof the previous owner.Thank you for choosing turning Turn the Page Book Nook. We welcome any inquiries regarding this or any other books, and invite you to stop and browse our other treasures! We will email additional photos of this book to you upon request. Happy Reading!!!
Bookseller Inventory #T02046

US$22 here: http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/BookDetails?bi=264596444
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Postby Barrius » Fri May 21, 2004 1:13 pm

1874 edition here for $30 http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/BookDetails?bi=256267250

Gildersleeve, B.L. Dr.
A LATIN GRAMMAR
New York: University Publishing Company, 1874 Hard Cover. Good Minus/No Dustjacket. No Edition Stated. Leather spine is worn heavily at ends and more lightly elsewhere. Soiling and white spots to boards. Moderate edgewear to boards. Ink name and date. Yellowing to pages.
Bookseller Inventory #078236

I wish I new more about antique books, and what are decent prices.
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Postby eris » Fri May 21, 2004 1:24 pm

Barrius wrote:I also found out that home copiers/scanners are worthless for this - now I understand what you mean by making a copy from a real copier first.


If the book is small, does one then photocopy both left & right side pages together or just photocopy each page on its own? After photocoping, then we scan the photocopies into adobe?

Just getting the steps down for this :)
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Postby Jeff Tirey » Fri May 21, 2004 1:45 pm

here's the process for converting a book.

Photocopy the book face down so that 2 pages of the book are captured with each photocopy.

Mail the photocopies in to me for scanning. You don't want to scan them yourself because I have a production scanner which will scan at about 50 pages per minute. It has a paper feed tray so all I do is put in about 100 pages at a time and it'll take care of the rest. With software I'll break apart the book pages into seperate image files. After that I clean the images and coallate them into one multipage .tif file. Last, I convert to PDF.

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Postby Barrius » Fri May 21, 2004 1:45 pm

eris wrote:If the book is small, does one then photocopy both left & right side pages together or just photocopy each page on its own? After photocoping, then we scan the photocopies into adobe?

Just getting the steps down for this :)


From my earlier conversations with Jeff, and from what I had read somewhere on the site, copy BOTH pages onto a single sheet of paper - Jeff will work his magic with computer to separate & put into PDF.

I think we'll flood him :lol:
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Postby Barrius » Fri May 21, 2004 1:49 pm

jeff wrote:here's the process for converting a book.

Photocopy the book face down so that 2 pages of the book are captured with each photocopy.

Mail the photocopies in to me for scanning. You don't want to scan them yourself because I have a production scanner which will scan at about 50 pages per minute. It has a paper feed tray so all I do is put in about 100 pages at a time and it'll take care of the rest. With software I'll break apart the book pages into seperate image files. After that I clean the images and coallate them into one multipage .tif file. Last, I convert to PDF.

Jeff


Gee, that was FAST! I had just seen Eris' post, and before I could reply, you had posted a complete discourse!
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Postby Jeff Tirey » Fri May 21, 2004 1:58 pm

Barrius wrote:
jeff wrote:I have already a photocopy of the school grammar of Gildersleeve's Latin Grammar - but I still can't find the full version. Anyone see it?


What is the difference between versions?



School editions are smaller and less in-depth versions of larger reference grammars. I don't think there are too many examples of them. It's all marketing and economics. The more pages to a book the higher the cost. So the school edition removes much of the more advance content in order to produce a more competitive textbook that's better suited for classroom use and more affordable for schools. It's still a reference grammar however. There are no exercises or anything like that found in them that you would find in a first year book. It's easy to see that it's really best to avoid the school edition and go for the complete reference grammar, but I still like them for historical/research reasons.

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Postby eris » Fri May 21, 2004 2:00 pm

Thank you Jeff & Barius for the response! It was QUICK, too! :)

I think someone has asked this before, but I'll ask it again anyway...
Is there a master list of books that you want to have on Textkit? If so, where is the list located? :) I'm willing to sign-up for several books.
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Postby Barrius » Fri May 21, 2004 2:13 pm

eris wrote:I think someone has asked this before, but I'll ask it again anyway... Is there a master list of books that you want to have on Textkit? If so, where is the list located? :) I'm willing to sign-up for several books.


At the top of the page (look under Tutorials) you'll see "::sitemap" which sends you here: http://www.textkit.com/sitemap.php

Once there, near the bottom of the page you'll see "View our full list of all Greek and Latin grammars, readers and classcial e-books" which takes you here: http://www.textkit.com/sitemap_direct_links.php
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Postby eris » Fri May 21, 2004 2:21 pm

Thanks for the link, Barrius, but I think you misunderstood me. I'm basically looking for a "wishlist" of books that Jeff would eventually like to have on textkit. Certainly some books are better than others, and with the high cost of hosting this site, there must be some limits set as to which get posted. Just my ramblings, though :)
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Postby Barrius » Fri May 21, 2004 2:49 pm

eris wrote:Thanks for the link, Barrius, but I think you misunderstood me. I'm basically looking for a "wishlist" of books that Jeff would eventually like to have on textkit. Certainly some books are better than others, and with the high cost of hosting this site, there must be some limits set as to which get posted. Just my ramblings, though :)

LOL - you wrote it correctly - I just can't read. Want, not have. [*hitting head againt wall*]

I think this will answer your question to some extent, which was a reply from Jeff a few days ago:
Jeff wrote:We pretty much just post things as we find them, but we do have some overall goals. One of them is to post the entire "College Series of Greek Authors" and "College Series of Latin Authors" by Ginn and Co. Basically, we like all things Ginn. Other very good collections include American Book Company's College Series which includes Smyth's Greek Grammar. Those blue and read Macmillan readers are also very good.
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Postby eris » Fri May 21, 2004 2:56 pm

Thanks, Barrius! I knew I had read it before, I just couldn't think of where it was!
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Getting Back Up to Speed

Postby waraysa » Sat May 22, 2004 4:33 pm

Jeff

Somewhere in this topic you asked for views on Sonnenschein. I have the sixth edition, MacMillan, 1934. It should be possible to find earlier editions that are out of copyright, the preface having been written in 1892.

E.A. Sonnenschein was a grammarian, and this book is " A Greek Grammar for Schools based on the principles and requirements of the grammatical society". Like Rutherford's grammar, it is in two parts, Accidence and Syntax. It has 344 pages. In the preface the author acknowledges the influence of Kaegi's school grammar, which uses a similar approach. (PS. A reprint of Adolph Kaegi's grammar is available through www.bolchazy.com).

I think the Accidence is excellent and there are many useful tables. The Syntax appears quite comprehensive for a school grammar. My Greek is probably not advanced enough to evaluate the comments on the classic teacher website that it is their favourite greek grammar etc etc. But I do think it is clearer and set out better than Rutherford's grammar.

Cheers

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