Theocracy and other misnomers

[cadoro]

I was irritated to hear yet again the term "theocracy" being used in connection with new government options in Iraq.Even regarded with the most generous optimism a rule by god is not quite feasible in this dark age but I'm stumped for the right word to describe what is meant-namely, a rule by clerics or priests - hierocracy? presbyocracy?
Any ideas?
Talking of which, democracy is almost as badly misnamed-more like ochlocracy or plutocracy.What is Greek for "rule by the people for one day every five years?" Any other "ocracy"s one would care to mention?
Cadoro

[chad]

What is Greek for "rule by the people for one day every five years?"

The usual word for this is [size=200]ἡ διἐνιαυτουπεμπτουκρατία[/size] I think

[Eureka]

Even regarded with the most generous optimism a rule by god is not quite feasible in this dark age

Rule by a god. Perhaps it means rule by Ares.

By the way, when was 'rule by god' feasible?

[Lex]

I was irritated to hear yet again the term "theocracy" being used in connection with new government options in Iraq.Even regarded with the most generous optimism a rule by god is not quite feasible in this dark age but I'm stumped for the right word to describe what is meant-namely, a rule by clerics or priests - hierocracy? presbyocracy?
Any ideas?

Since what the fundamentalist Muslims want is a state that is run according to Sharia, which they believe is the law that God intends us to live under, perhaps theonomocracy?

Talking of which, democracy is almost as badly misnamed-more like ochlocracy or plutocracy.

Democracy: Two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch.

(Forgive my cynicism, but I just did my taxes yesterday, so I am feeling thoroughly and properly fleeced today.)

[PeterD]

Is the United States a theocracy?

Let's see,

• --cabinet meetings start with a prayer;
  --no presidential speech is complete without a reference to God;
  --the Commander in Chimp ( sorry, can't call that moron president) ungrammatically says that he communicates daily with God;
  --Christian fundamentalists (American Taliban) believe that GWB was divinely selected;
  --the US has the death penalty just like Saudi Arabia (a theocracy)
  ...

[benissimus]

Is the United States a theocracy?

Let's see,

• --cabinet meetings start with a prayer;
  --no presidential speech is complete without a reference to God;
  --the Commander in Chimp ( sorry, can't call that moron president) ungrammatically says that he communicates daily with God;
  --Christian fundamentalists (American Taliban) believe that GWB was divinely selected;
  --the US has the death penalty just like Saudi Arabia (a theocracy)
  ...

That is a distant leap to say the least...

by that logic, wouldn't every government that has ever governed Europe for the past 1500 years also be theocracy?

[PeterD]

Is the United States a theocracy?

Let's see,

• --cabinet meetings start with a prayer;
  --no presidential speech is complete without a reference to God;
  --the Commander in Chimp ( sorry, can't call that moron president) ungrammatically says that he communicates daily with God;
  --Christian fundamentalists (American Taliban) believe that GWB was divinely selected;
  --the US has the death penalty just like Saudi Arabia (a theocracy)
  ...

That is a distant leap to say the least...

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck -- it's a duck

[Rhapsody]

"It's easy to simplify things , but dangerous"

[PeterD]

"It's easy to simplify things , but dangerous"

Allow me to gradually extend my list, and will see if I'am "simplifying things."

• --mandatory sentences for nonviolent offenders; for instance there was young man who received a 15 year sentence for simple drug possession for personal use!
  --three strikes and your out!
  --in many states, certain sexual acts between consenting adults are against the law!
  --on the same theme, crackig down on sex toys sales (Mississippi News). Are you going to tell adults what to do in the privacy of their own home?
  --Tittygate!
  --US soldiers in Iraq asked to pray for the Commander in Chimp!
  --Patriot Act!
  --a foreign policy that is dominated by the Christian right!

Of course this is not an exhaustive list.

Come on America, give your boobies some freedom -- bounce your boobies.

[cadoro]

Since what the fundamentalist Muslims want is a state that is run according to Sharia, which they believe is the law that God intends us to live under, perhaps theonomocracy?

Yes a "theonomial solution" sounds right-the word that is. Before this thread gets out of hand-I can see it getting much too political- I think we'd better draw a line there.

[PeterD]

Yes a "theonomial solution" sounds right-the word that is. Before this thread gets out of hand-I can see it getting much too political- I think we'd better draw a line there.

My sincere apologies; it is getting political. It's just that when I see or hear the word 'theocracy,' my neighbour to the south comes to mind.

Take care,

PeterD

[annis]

What is Greek for "rule by the people for one day every five years?" Any other "ocracy"s one would care to mention?

That's the danger of studying the classics: every word we hear is subjected to analysis for Greek and Latin etymologies. Once a word is coined, it takes on a life of its own. So long as everyone using the word agrees that "theocracy" means "rule by people claiming to be enforcing god's rules" no confusion - etymological or otherwise - seems likely.

[Bert]

That's the danger of studying the classics: every word we hear is subjected to analysis for Greek and Latin etymologies. Once a word is coined, it takes on a life of its own.

Biology from [size=150]βίος[/size] is a case in point.

So long as everyone using the word agrees that "theocracy" means "rule by people claiming to be enforcing god's rules" no confusion - etymological or otherwise - seems likely.

As far as "theocracy" is concerned, I don't think it means "rule by people claiming to be enforcing god's rules" at all.
This might be called "theonomy" (but this word also took on a life of its own and came to have an emphasis on the Old Testament laws.)
Theocracy is the rule by God like it was in the time of Moses, Joshua etc.
The government in the USA and certainly in Canada is not theocratic, (not for the reasons PeterD listed.)

[Eureka]

You could call our modern system of government, "di-oligarchy".

[PeterD]

The government in the USA and certainly in Canada is not theocratic, (not for the reasons PeterD listed.)

Hi Bert,

Are there, in your opinion, any countries that you would consider "theocratic, " and if so why?

[Bert]

Hi Bert,

Are there, in your opinion, any countries that you would consider "theocratic, " and if so why?

I don't think any country now is under the direct administration of God.
Some countries (eg, some Muslim countries) are governed by clergy who claim to rule according to what their gods dictate, I guess these could be called theocracies.
Like William said, it depends on how 'theocratic' is defined-but a christian ruler does not a theocracy make.
My biggest beef with your post is not a quibble about definitions but I do not like the disrespect you show for the government of the USA.
I have more respect for President Bush than I do for Prime Minister Martin, yet I will not call Martin, who is placed in his position by God, a moron.
My position is probably not a popular one but so be it.

[PeterD]

[My biggest beef with your post is not a quibble about definitions but I do not like the disrespect you show for the government of the USA.
I have more respect for President Bush than I do for Prime Minister Martin, yet I will not call Martin, who is placed in his position by God, a moron.
My position is probably not a popular one but so be it.

As a frequent visitor to the US and having lots of relatives there, I have the outmost respect for the US and its citizens. However, when its government -- or any government for that matter -- commits crimes against humanity, then it is our duty as free human beings to speak up. I can list the crimes of the US goverment if you like but I know that you are capable enough to pick up a copy of Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch and read about the crimes yourself.

The question of whether the Commander in Chimp is in fact a moron can be easily established by his April 13 news press conference (keeping it recent). Here are some examples:

• ->he said that Donald Rumsfeld was Secretary of State. I think that even an American boy in grade school knows it's Powell; besides, he appointed him, he should have known!
  ->he pronounced "instigated" as "instikated."
  ->his second sentence was ungrammatical: "This has been tough weeks in that country." What in Zeus's name does that mean?
  ->he made the moronic comment that before 9/11, "we assumed oceans would protect us." What freakin' year does he think it is? Has he not heard of ICBMs???
  ...

Pray tell, since GWB's mother tongue does not appear to be English, would you know what it is?

We have easily established that GWB is a "you know what" through inductive reasoning (ζήτω ἡ (ελληνικὴ σκέψις). It is utterly bewildering that a great country like the US can choose (oops, I forgot, he was court-appointed ) a leader of such mediocre (I'm being nice) qualities.

You stated, "I will not call Martin, who is placed in his position by God, a moron." I don't know about the others but that is a pretty freaky statement. I got tell you, Bert, that it's news to me that PM Martin was placed in his position by God; I didn't even know that God was registered to vote.

My apologies to Cadero for letting this thread go off on a tangential, political direction. When you are a student of Greek, it is difficult to keep politics from creeping in -- ὁ ἄνθρωπος πολιτικὸν ζῷον.

PS: No hard feelings my fellow Canuck and again my apologies to the moderators; this is my last post on this matter -- I promise

[klewlis]

I have more respect for President Bush than I do for Prime Minister Martin...

!!!!

Why???

I mean, I don't like either one of them. I don't trust Martin as far as I can throw him, but I can't see that he has done nearly the horrible things that Bush has. I'm not sure how one can have ANY respect for Bush as a leader.

[Bert]

->he pronounced "instigated" as "instikated."
->his second sentence was ungrammatical: "This has been tough weeks in that country." What in Zeus's name does that mean?
??
...[/list]

I make grammatical and pronunciation mistakes.
I have heard smart people like TV news anchors make comical grammatical mistakes. That does not make us morons.( Good thing; check out your own post I'll quote; (quote 1) I got tell you, Bert, that it's news to me
(quote 2) Know hard feelings my fellow Canuck )
See what I mean?

You stated, "I will not call Martin, who is placed in his position by God, a moron." I don't know about the others but that is a pretty freaky statement. I got tell you, Bert, that it's news to me that PM Martin was placed in his position by God; I didn't even know that God was registered to vote.

PeterD, I think I recall you writing about you being a Christian (if my memory failed me; my apologies). Read Romans 13. That is what I meant.
My positions as employee, as parent, and as husband are God-given, even though it was not God who hired me, etc.

PS: Know hard feelings my fellow Canuck and again my apologies to the moderators; this is my last post on this matter -- I promise

No hard feelings on my part either.
Knowing that Jeff gets a little nervous about political and religious discussions (and this one is both), maybe we should stop this discussion, unless he gives permission to continue. We could also continue it by private e-mail.
Greetings.

[PeterD]

->he pronounced "instigated" as "instikated."
->his second sentence was ungrammatical: "This has been tough weeks in that country." What in Zeus's name does that mean?
??
...[/list]

I make grammatical and pronunciation mistakes.
I have heard smart people like TV news anchors make comical grammatical mistakes. That does not make us morons.( Good thing; check out your own post I'll quote; (quote 1) I got tell you, Bert, that it's news to me
(quote 2) Know hard feelings my fellow Canuck )
See what I mean

I edited my last my post; unfortunately, not fast enough.

Besides, I am not the president.