Textkit Logo

Iliad & Odyssey PDF pirate version :P

Textkit is a learning community- introduce yourself here. Use the Open Board to introduce yourself, chat about off-topic issues and get to know each other.

Moderators: thesaurus, Jeff Tirey

Postby Raya » Tue Jan 06, 2004 12:17 pm

Isn't the original Greek text in the public domain anyway? I thought it's just translations and notes on the text (including footnotes and all of Perseus' cross-referencing, links to lexicon entries etc) which are under copyright...
User avatar
Raya
Textkit Fan
 
Posts: 302
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 9:27 am

Postby Jeff Tirey » Tue Jan 06, 2004 12:46 pm

Raya wrote:Isn't the original Greek text in the public domain anyway? I thought it's just translations and notes on the text (including footnotes and all of Perseus' cross-referencing, links to lexicon entries etc) which are under copyright...


Hi Raya:

It's more complicated than that. All Greek text comes from manuscripts that are owned by someone. An editor must receceive permission from the manuscript owner to use the manuscript in a publication. It's almost always the case that there will be editorial changes made to the publication that now make the new work different and unique from the original manuscript - such as making spelling and layout changes. These changes help create a new work that can be copyrighted.

So very often Greek and Latin text on Perseus is very much copyright protected. It's online because they have agreements that allow them to display content.

Also, even if Perseus content was in the public domain, from my position as a webmaster and website developer it's a no-no to redistribute other website's content without permission.

(that's why I deleted the original post from this thread)
Textkit Founder
User avatar
Jeff Tirey
Administrator
Administrator
 
Posts: 891
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2002 6:58 pm
Location: Strongsville, Ohio

Iliad & Odyssey PDF pirate version :P

Postby Lisa » Tue Jan 06, 2004 9:45 pm

Thanks, Jeff,

That was an excellent summary.

There are many texts on the 'Net which are expressly public domain, and those who have entered or transcribed them typically make it clear how they would like to see them treated. Keep in mind, the law can be tricky in this area, and once someone claims to *add value,* all bets are off. And, then there are international laws, international sites, people who like lawsuits, fair use questions, new laws, changed laws....

Regardless of the legal status of a work, it is the collegial and respectful thing to do to ask permission of the person or persons who did the work if you're not clear what their position is. Most established sites or libraries have policies, like Project Gutenberg, which tells you right in the document what is going on. Other people decide on a case by case basis, and so forth. Some make distinctions between non-proft and for profit endeavors. Others just don't want you to use their stuff.

What I don't like, and I agree 100% with Jeff's policy, is not giving any indication of where the work came from. (I already vented about this in [url=http://www.textkit.com/greek-latin-forum/viewtopic.php?t=1100&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=]
my post on "Intratext" in the outside links forum[/url]). Not giving credit or any source annoys me; it's not terribly hard to track down a source citation with all of the tools on the Internet.

"Various sources" isn't acceptable for a high school freshman, let alone on a scholarly site.

Best,
Lisa
Lisa
Textkit Neophyte
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu May 22, 2003 8:38 pm
Location: Somerville, MA

Postby mingshey » Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:22 am

Wow, it's more tricky than I thought. :shock: :roll:
Since it was easy to print by chapters(select chunks by book and configure the display to show no hyperlinks and footnotes, then move to next book, print, move, print, ...) and I thought it made little difference if I told other people how to do it or if I did all the dirty jobs and prepared a readily printable file. Especially when I thought the font was ugly and wanted to change it. But that COULD make a difference, hmm...

jeff wrote:...

Also, even if Perseus content was in the public domain, from my position as a webmaster and website developer it's a no-no to redistribute other website's content without permission.

(that's why I deleted the original post from this thread)
And I'd have to respect that point, anyway.
I had seen a website that allowed no print, no right-mouse-button-menu(including copy, save, etc) by an unknown(to me) web technic. That kind of technic could quench the desire (like mine) to copy the content.
I'll have to tell those perseus people about it. :P
User avatar
mingshey
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1332
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 6:38 am
Location: Seoul

Postby benissimus » Wed Jan 07, 2004 3:40 am

Non right-click sites are really annoying. Not only do they restrict some convenient commands, but a lot of them also disallow the middle button functions which I use to scroll :(
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
User avatar
benissimus
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 2733
Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 4:32 am
Location: Berkeley, California

Postby Keesa » Wed Jan 07, 2004 12:59 pm

They do?! :shock: How annoying! (I use that middle button, too, although mine is more of a wheel.)

Jeff (or Lisa, or someone who knows more about this than I do):

Aren't there relaxations in the copyright laws when you copy something for personal use only? For example, on D'Ooge and White's books, I copy out each lesson (word for word) into a notebook, sometimes several times each. Copying the lessons helps me to remember them and learn them. I don't imagine it matters with those books, since they're out of copyright anyway, but what about my Basics of Biblical Greek, c. 1999? Am I unwittingly violating copyright laws when I copy my lessons to my notebook?
phpbb
Keesa
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1108
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:59 pm

Postby mingshey » Wed Jan 07, 2004 1:07 pm

Keesa wrote:Jeff (or Lisa, or someone who knows more about this than I do):

Aren't there relaxations in the copyright laws when you copy something for personal use only? For example, on D'Ooge and White's books, I copy out each lesson (word for word) into a notebook, sometimes several times each. Copying the lessons helps me to remember them and learn them. I don't imagine it matters with those books, since they're out of copyright anyway, but what about my Basics of Biblical Greek, c. 1999? Am I unwittingly violating copyright laws when I copy my lessons to my notebook?


I think what matters is my attempt to REDISTRIBUTE what I compiled. I think you're safe. ;)
User avatar
mingshey
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1332
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 6:38 am
Location: Seoul

Postby Jeff Tirey » Wed Jan 07, 2004 1:12 pm

Keesa wrote:but what about my Basics of Biblical Greek, c. 1999? Am I unwittingly violating copyright laws when I copy my lessons to my notebook?


I'm not an attorney so I can't definitively say, but that doesn't seem like a problem at all. It sounds like a very reasonable use of a textbook. I copied me lessons all the time to help me learn. That's my take on it.

Jeff
Textkit Founder
User avatar
Jeff Tirey
Administrator
Administrator
 
Posts: 891
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2002 6:58 pm
Location: Strongsville, Ohio

Postby Keesa » Wed Jan 07, 2004 1:17 pm

Oh, good. Thanks. For a minute or two, you had me worried....
phpbb
Keesa
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1108
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:59 pm

Postby klewlis » Wed Jan 07, 2004 3:09 pm

There are always "reasonable use" clauses that allow you to copy large portions of a book for personal or classroom use. There are limits to how much of a given book you can copy, but I'm not sure what the numbers are. And of course sites like Perseus don't mind if you print out texts to better read them--it's when you start redistributing that you cross the line. :)
User avatar
klewlis
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 1593
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 1:48 pm
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Postby mingshey » Wed Jan 07, 2004 3:28 pm

So i give up handing out.

what if I tell you how to get a neat print-out?

[REMOVED :evil: ]

Oh, it's too easy not to know? Then, good for you. :)
User avatar
mingshey
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1332
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 6:38 am
Location: Seoul

Postby mingshey » Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:44 am

Lex wrote:My goodness! It's terrible that you would do such a thing! Why, if somebody were to contact me privately by IM, I would not be able give them copies of, oh, say, Anabasis or Homer that I already obtained in this way, thus saving them lots of time, because I would never do anything so horrid! <insert innocent angel emoticon here>


The recipe looks long, but actually it's no big trouble. :)
User avatar
mingshey
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 1332
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 6:38 am
Location: Seoul

Postby Lex » Thu Jan 08, 2004 2:49 pm

mingshey wrote:
Lex wrote:My goodness! It's terrible that you would do such a thing! Why, if somebody were to contact me privately by IM, I would not be able give them copies of, oh, say, Anabasis or Homer that I already obtained in this way, thus saving them lots of time, because I would never do anything so horrid! <insert innocent angel emoticon here>


The recipe looks long, but actually it's no big trouble. :)


True, but if Perseus is slow, it takes a long time.
I, Lex Llama, super genius, will one day rule this planet! And then you'll rue the day you messed with me, you damned dirty apes!
User avatar
Lex
Textkit Zealot
 
Posts: 732
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 6:34 pm
Location: A top-secret underground llama lair.

Postby Jeff Tirey » Thu Jan 08, 2004 4:17 pm

This is NOT THE PLACE to discuss how to steal content from Perseus or any other website for that matter. Let's close this topic down and call it a day on this subject.

New Rule (which I thought was so obvious that it need not be stated)

Please do not discuss how to lift web content from other sites. It's wrong to do that and it undermines the support we receive from other online classics community. Now if you want to go around lifting content - whatever - because I really don't care. But I do care if you come here to share your files. I expect other web sites to respect the uniqueness of our content and therefore we respect theirs. period.[/b]
Textkit Founder
User avatar
Jeff Tirey
Administrator
Administrator
 
Posts: 891
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2002 6:58 pm
Location: Strongsville, Ohio


Return to Open Board

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests