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Native languages?

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Postby Lex » Thu Dec 18, 2003 3:33 pm

1%homeless wrote:And around here, I keep hearing people say German is a harsh and ugly language. It hurts and pisses me off that people so misunderstand German because of it's association to hitler speech films.


I don't think it has anything to do with Nazism or Hitler. It's just that German enunciation is, relative to English, very hard. All the consonants that English shares with German tend to be more plosive in German. Then there are the gutterals, which sound harsh to people whose native language doesn't have them. And the vowel pronunciation is not as relaxed as in English, which also gives an impression of rigidity to English ears. At least, that's my impression.

Hebrew has some of the same qualities. I don't personally like the sound of any Semitic language, but that's probably partly because I live above a Lebanese couple who fight in Arabic all the time. :x

Welsh I don't know enough about.

I don't think that expressing aesthetic opinions about languages is rude in and of itself. It just depends on how it's done.
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Postby Lex » Thu Dec 18, 2003 3:39 pm

Episcopus wrote:Well here in Wales French is seen to be the language of queer people. Je suis d'accord avec cela :wink:


In American popular culture, an English accent (albeit usually RP, not cockney) is often used to denote the "nancy boy". Witness Pip from South Park.
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Postby Episcopus » Thu Dec 18, 2003 3:42 pm

I dislike also semitic languages...but arabic has some nice facets...I can't really explain when they hang onto a short a and air is released but that's funky. Plus arabic music is mysterious. And women who dance in those golden and red outfits.



"And around here, I keep hearing people say German is a harsh and ugly language. It hurts and pisses me off that people so misunderstand German because of it's association to hitler speech films. "

Indeed. You can't stop that. The german exchange students in our school were faced with much hostility. I just don't think any one will forget things that's all...and the ignorance of some stupid kids not even involved...
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Postby Kalailan » Thu Dec 18, 2003 8:51 pm

mingshey wrote: for even Korean can be musical when it's spoken by some foreigners. :D


i only heard korean once, and the person was korean. maybe the fact that she is a violist has something to do with the musicality i 'liked' about korean.

i wish i would know more korean... i only know the following words:
kamsahamnida, mianhamnida, aniong, aniong haseo, and also chellbo with a really weird 'l'. how is it pronounced?
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Postby 1%homeless » Thu Dec 18, 2003 8:56 pm

I'm disapointed Episcopus, you didn't even mention a negative thing about Welsh. :D Does queer mean gay in England? I have to get myself an English English dictionary. :-) My favorite word thus far is bint, even though I don't have a fluent understanding of it.

I had a friend from Spain in college (UT-Austin) say Mexican Spanish sounded effeminate!


That's funny, I once saw this Mexican girl mock Spain Spainish with a haughty gesture. I'll use Lex's term to describe what she looked like when mocking Spain Spanish: "nancy boy".

("Gothic" as in Germanic tribes of the sort that caused the Romans troubles, not people wearing black and smoking clove cigarettes).


Haha, smoking cloves... I like this stereotype. It works for me. Here is one person renaming it to Gotish.

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Postby mingshey » Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:52 am

Kalailan wrote:i only heard korean once, and the person was korean. maybe the fact that she is a violist has something to do with the musicality i 'liked' about korean.


Hmm, that seems to explain. :)

i wish i would know more korean... i only know the following words:
kamsahamnida, mianhamnida, aniong, aniong haseo, and also chellbo with a really weird 'l'. how is it pronounced?


Well, I don't know what is "chellbo". Korean 'l'(or 'r', we don't distinguish them in Korean) is pronounced with your tongue in position of English 'd' or 't'. So some 'd' or 't's in english words are recognised as Korean 'r/l'. For example, 'data' as many an american pronounces, we hear it as 'dera'. And 'editor' as 'erirol'. Japanese 'r' has similar property, as far as I know.
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Postby Keesa » Fri Dec 19, 2003 2:21 pm

Wow! That is almost as strange as the Greek alphabet. :wink:

I love looking at the differences between languages. Even between English speakers, the differences in pronunciation are sometimes hilarious.
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Postby Kalailan » Fri Dec 19, 2003 8:47 pm

mingshey wrote:
Kalailan wrote:i only heard korean once, and the person was korean. maybe the fact that she is a violist has something to do with the musicality i 'liked' about korean.


Hmm, that seems to explain. :)

i wish i would know more korean... i only know the following words:
kamsahamnida, mianhamnida, aniong, aniong haseo, and also chellbo with a really weird 'l'. how is it pronounced?


Well, I don't know what is "chellbo". Korean 'l'(or 'r', we don't distinguish them in Korean) is pronounced with your tongue in position of English 'd' or 't'. So some 'd' or 't's in english words are recognised as Korean 'r/l'. For example, 'data' as many an american pronounces, we hear it as 'dera'. And 'editor' as 'erirol'. Japanese 'r' has similar property, as far as I know.


something is suspicious here.... was she lying to me?
and about the r's, i tried to teach her how to say R the way israelis do(germans too) that was hilarious. :lol:
she said about every letter instead of R.
now, i remember that Nure or Nule was song, but what is the past tense for the verb to sing in korean?
or the imperative?. cause that's what Ronen means.

does mingshey mean anything?
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Postby mingshey » Sun Dec 21, 2003 11:36 pm

I think this thread has become something we should discuss in pm. So, I'll post the reply in a pm. ;)
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Yuck!

Postby mingshey » Tue Dec 23, 2003 6:59 am

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Postby Emma_85 » Tue Dec 23, 2003 12:40 pm

I think some bits there aren't quite correct
“Learning a foreign language too early, in some cases, may not only cause a speech impediment but, in the worst case, make an child autistic.”

but I definitely agree it's quite worrying. Seems like the parents are just expecting too much from their children, and pushing them too much. That they will resort to surgery just shows how desperate some parents are, it's not just the surgery itself that's terrible, but also the whole concept of desperately wanting their children to be good at something they may not naturally be very good at and pushing them. I imagine those poor children that just can't live up to those too high standards will feel quite inferior and frustrated not to mention always feeling you have to live up to your parents expectiations all the time (which are so high the child would virtually have to give up playing and having fun to meet them). Stress at such an early age? :o
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Postby Moerus » Wed Dec 24, 2003 12:40 am

Dutch,
but in fact I'm bilingual: so I speak Frensh as if it were Dutch.
I also know little bit English, German, Latin and Greek.
And now I'm beginning to study, New-Greek, Italian and Russian.
And in februari I will take a course to perform my English, cause in july our university has chosen me to go to Greece for an international symposium about Homer. It looks great, but I will have to express myself a little better in English.

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Postby mingshey » Wed Dec 24, 2003 4:47 am

Emma_85 wrote:Stress at such an early age? :o


Yeah, such a stress that the kids cannot dream of learning Greek of themselves. :(
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Postby Keesa » Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:16 pm

Moerus wrote:Dutch,
but in fact I'm bilingual: so I speak Frensh as if it were Dutch.
I also know little bit English, German, Latin and Greek.
And now I'm beginning to study, New-Greek, Italian and Russian.
And in februari I will take a course to perform my English, cause in july our university has chosen me to go to Greece for an international symposium about Homer. It looks great, but I will have to express myself a little better in English.

Moerus


I am impressed! My brother knows Russian; he says its incredible hard to learn. (Could just be my brother. :wink: )
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Postby Moerus » Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:22 pm

No it's not just him, I find it really hard too. But I am in the very first beginning now. It's not my goal to know Russian as well as Latin or Greek. That gives me a little comfort!
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Postby Keesa » Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:37 pm

I can say a couple of words in Russian...either "please" or "thank you" (I can't remember which one) and the word for "brother", but I can't spell them, so... :D
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Postby mingshey » Thu Dec 25, 2003 2:20 am

Keesa wrote:I can say a couple of words in Russian...either "please" or "thank you" (I can't remember which one) and the word for "brother", but I can't spell them, so... :D


Pojaluysta and Spasibo, respectively?
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Postby Kalailan » Thu Dec 25, 2003 7:43 am

they are pronounced more like
pajhalsta & spasiva.
that is, at least, how i hear them.
many russians in israel...
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Postby Keesa » Thu Dec 25, 2003 2:53 pm

Something like that, yes. :D
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well I am French speaking...

Postby Cleo » Wed Dec 31, 2003 4:56 am

well I am French speaking... But I'm not queer. I am however female.

French is my native language, I know English as my second language. I used to know Spanish ( 5 years in high school, it used to be that my Spanish was better than my English, but those years are long gone). I studied a bit of German, but that's also gone.

I don't remember what I thought about how the English language sounded, because I was surrounded by it from an early age.
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