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An introduction and a question.

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An introduction and a question.

Postby Nexus Ferocis » Mon Dec 08, 2003 9:21 pm

I stumbled upon this forum a few days ago and I must say that I am pleased with what I see. At first, however, I was not too interested in coming to such a small forum, but then again, I just made the posting population one man higher, no?

Well I’m not overly good at introductions, so I will just throw out some information.

I am but 16 years of age as of November 23, and have recently found a delight in learning languages. I am already done with Wheelock’s Latin after five months of hard study, and am now 3/4 through Japanese after four months of lax study. Through all this study I have learned a good lesson: do not zealously study two languages at once! Especially not Latin with a language as far-fetched as Japanese! The two are almost opposites, they just don’t mix, and because of it I’ve started talking Latinese, as I call it.

I plan on learning Greek next, so this forum will help me yet again in the future.

But! To the point: I have finished Wheelocks too fast, and thus I know the grammar of Latin, but not enough words. I am thinking of buying Harrius Potter et Philosophi Lapis, but I want your advice. I have never been interested in Harry Potter books, and have until now avoided them. I know the book has very simple writing, and that’s what I want: 300 pages of easy Latin. You see, I am aspiring to speak Latin fluently, and the way I see it, there is no easier way to obtain a large vocabulary and learn to speak a language than reading lots of it.

Well, what do you think? Will it help me attain fluency, or should I stick with Caesar or other writers? Your information will be appreciated.

By the way, here is an amusing Latin site:

http://www.ealasaid.com/quotes/latinsil.html

You may want to check it out. Maybe I should by that book for fun. Here are some of my personal favorites:


Threats Carry More Weight in Latin:
Prospice tibi - ut Gallia, tu quoque in tres partes dividaris.
Watch out - you might end up divided into three parts, like Gaul.

In tempore praeterito plus quam perfecto de te mox dicent.
People will soon be referring to you in the past pluperfect tense.

Cave ne ante ullas catapultas ambules.
If I were you, I wouldn't walk in front of any catapults.

Useful Curses
Utinam barbari spatium proprium tuum invadant!
May barbarians invade your personal space!

Utinam coniurati te inforo interficiant!
May Conspirators assassinate you in the mall!

Utinam modo subiunctivo semper male utaris!
May you always misuse the subjunctive!

Wiretappers Don't Know Latin
Placetne tibi ut eum necemus?
Whaddya say we bump him off?

Locum despoliemus.
Let's stick up the joint.

Materiem habeo - habesne nummos?
I got the stuff - you got the money?

Bene! At scin quid faciam? Certum est mini subterfugere omnia vectigalia ei imposita!
Swell! Hey, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna evade all the income tax on it!

Gaudete et valete.
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Postby benissimus » Mon Dec 08, 2003 11:30 pm

Wow, those are great. I may have to get that book... I have seen it around...
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
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Postby Keesa » Mon Dec 08, 2003 11:54 pm

Welcome to Textkit!

Hehe. I like those phrases! My brother sent me some similar to those not long ago...I hadn't heard most of these, though. Thanks for posting them.
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Postby Episcopus » Tue Dec 09, 2003 2:06 pm

Haha Japanese nice one. Are you female?

The "placetne tibi ut eum necemus" translation is very rough :shock:

I agree with the two languages point. I am to do chinese soon after I will have finished this Latin course. Have you considered chinese? I had a choice between that and japanese...
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Postby Nexus Ferocis » Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:33 pm

Episcopus-

Yeah, some of those translations are rough, but fun all the same.

As for Chinese, it is said to be the hardest language for westerners to learn. It has many different dialects throughout China; the pronunciation has tones and pitches, and the sentence structure make as much sense as Sushi through at a dartboard. Well, the last one goes the same for Japanese too…

Japanese pronunciation is extremely easy on the other hand; it doesn’t even have accent marks. But I have seen so many hundreds of hours of Japanese movies and shows in Japanese with English subtitles that the language comes natural to me.

Have you studied any far eastern languages? Believe me when I say that they are nothing like the European ones. Can be frustrating or fun.

Oh, and I’m male.
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Postby Episcopus » Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:41 pm

hmm...why do girls always suck at languages

Tones, dissimilarities - don't I know it! But me loves a challenge if she want it me give it unto she. :shock:
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Postby Clemens » Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:45 pm

I'm not too sure if I said it before ([face=SPIonic]lh/qh[/face] :mrgreen:), but anyways, I'd love to learn Chinese, too...:)
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Postby Episcopus » Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:49 pm

Ho Chih Minh shoot a load on your chin :?

I've spent too long mocking chinese it's time to be stronger and not ignorant. Although they are a funny type of people.

Japanese gameshows are strange.
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Postby Nexus Ferocis » Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:44 pm

Episcopus, even though I know so much about Japan and its culture, I still think it is funny when they try to speak English. :)

Here's something for a good laugh:

http://www.engrish.com/

Well, about my question, has any one here read Harrius Potter et Philosophi Lapis? Is it recomended? I haven't looked inside the book, but I assume the Latin is not childishly easy, right?
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Postby klewlis » Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:02 pm

I doubt that it could be childishly easy, considering the content. I guess it depends on your goals... if your goal is to become proficient in neo-latin literature then this would be good... but if you want to learn the old stuff, Harry Potter probably won't help much.

However, it would be a fun thing to read and would be a good exercise in any case (I myself have Ursus Nomine Paddington and Cattus Petasatus!).

Episcopus, surely the large number of women on this site renders your generalization absurd and inaccurate.
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Postby Nexus Ferocis » Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:23 pm

Well Klewlis, I don't see how it could hurt. Besides, I can read literature, but I want to learn common words, so I can actually speak latin. Though I enjoy to read Latin literature, you just don't get much common conversation, that's why it's literature. Despite I can read it, it's just hard to become fluent with Cicero.
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Postby klewlis » Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:51 pm

well, it should help with vocabulary in any case. but you can only become fluent with oral/audio practice, not with simply reading. :)
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Postby Nexus Ferocis » Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:04 pm

Klewlis, don't underestimate what one can do. I learned pronunciation strictly from wheelocks, and just a few days ago I tested it by listening to the Latin radio; my pronunciation was perfect. I really have never heard someone speak Latin until then. I don't mean to sound concieted though!
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Postby Nexus Ferocis » Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:08 pm

On a good note, my friend is learning Latin. With my help, it shouldn't take too long for him, at least not as long as I did. Then I should get some good practice. :)
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Postby JDL » Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:01 am

Huh? 3/4 through Japanese after 4 months of study?   :?:    
Sugei yo. Boku wa kotoshi no sangatsu kara tokyo no nihongo gakkou de mainichi nihongo o naratteiru kedo, nakanaka umaku hanasenai yo. Soshite, senshuu no nichiyoubi ni 2 kyuu no nihongo nouryoku shiken o ukemashita ga goukaku shita ka dou ka wakarimasen. Tokorode anata wa takusan no nihon no eiga o mita to kakimashita ga, itsumo donna eiga o miru no? Anime?

The comment by Episcopus about Japanese game shows being strange is right on the mark, but I think that in recent years their oddness has been equaled, if not exceeded, by the ones coming out of America. TV is more or less the same everywhere....moronic.
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Postby Episcopus » Wed Dec 10, 2003 1:59 pm

Ni hao women shi ma

See generalizations are often right :D

Harry Potter is very hard latin for what it seems to be. It will be more challenging than you think it to be...plus the vocabulary is obscure at times.

Hah I'd like to watch some one here learning latin! :shock:
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Postby Nexus Ferocis » Wed Dec 10, 2003 4:02 pm

Takusan Anime o miru n desu. Demo, jimaku wa nakereba, amari wakarimasen. Motto Nihongo ga wakaru yoo ni naritai n desu. Kakiru no taihen desu ne? Tonikaku, Mononoke Hime ga ichiban Anime suki desu. Akira yori n da. Anata ga Anime o mimasu ka? Nihon de donna eiga ga ichiban suki desu ka? Dono eiga?
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Postby Nexus Ferocis » Wed Dec 10, 2003 4:37 pm

When I say that I am 3/4 through Japanese, that is my book "Japanese," which is comparable to Wheelocks with how much it covers. But look at me, I done with wheelocks and finishing up the readings in the back, but I still have a long ways to go until I can speak it.

Thankfully, Japanese is a modern language, and I can watch all that media. That will help much.
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Postby Emma_85 » Wed Dec 10, 2003 5:19 pm

Welcome to Textkit!
Where do you live that's so near Japan? The only word I know is Anime :-P (unless of course this word actually has nothing at all to do with the comics).
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Postby Episcopus » Wed Dec 10, 2003 5:33 pm

Has anybody ever told you 'well done'? Congratulations for being able in Japanese :wink:
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Postby Nexus Ferocis » Wed Dec 10, 2003 5:55 pm

You flatter me Episcopus. :)

I don't live near Japan, Emma, in fact I live in Colorado, but I do have a facination with Japan, Japanese culture, language, history, thinking, martial arts, anime, and so on.

I'll have to go there someday...
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Postby Episcopus » Wed Dec 10, 2003 6:06 pm

You should stay there. My mommy said that I have to learn japanese go there and earn lots of paper.
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Postby Emma_85 » Wed Dec 10, 2003 7:23 pm

Ahh... so you all the Japanese programmes you were talking about were Animes? Just thought you must live near Japan, cause I thought you had Japanese TV or something...
One of my best friends has quite a few DVDs in Japanese, I always think it's really funny to listen to them, because when you see them in German quite a few organisations or groups of some sort have German names, but I always thought that was just the translation like until I heard the Japanese original. They have some fascination with the German language or what?
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Postby Nexus Ferocis » Wed Dec 10, 2003 8:48 pm

The Japanese have a fascination with English mostly, but they like to use many other languages in Anime too.

I have many DVDs of Anime, that is to say, 7 whole series and several movies. I only watch them in Japanese with subtitles because the English dubbing is usually horrible. Where do you live, Emma? Because in America Anime is growing in popularity, but most people think that it is for kids just because it is animated. But the truth is that the Japanese animate almost everything, they have cartoons everywhere, from history books to manuals. Hell, they even animate... "adult" movies, if you get my meaning.

Also, the good Anime isn't imported to America, it seems, and if they do import it it usually has bad dubbing. *Sigh* Most people think of Disney when they see animation, but they don't know what they're missing out on...
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Postby Emma_85 » Wed Dec 10, 2003 9:15 pm

I live in Germany, and Amnime is very popular here and has been for some time. American comics never really made it to Germany, but Japanese ones certainly have.

Hell, they even animate... "adult" movies, if you get my meaning.


That's how Mangas first came into being like, cause pornos are forbidden Japan (or were, dunno if they still are), but animated ones aren't :P . So they just drew and drew and drew...
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Postby Nexus Ferocis » Wed Dec 10, 2003 9:26 pm

Emma_85 wrote:American comics never really made it to Germany,


Then you are not missing out on anything. :)
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Postby JDL » Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:17 am

Nexus Ferocis wrote:Takusan Anime o miru n desu.


Aa, sou nan da. Boku wa nihon e kite kara, eiga toka terebi o miru jikan ga sukunaku natte shimatta node, kono goro nanimo minakatta. Demo mae wa, tokidoki anime o mita. (tatoeba, Akira, Sen to chihiro, nado.)

Un, nihongo o jyouzu ni kaku no wa muzukashii kedo, boku ni wa bunpou ga ichiban muzukashii. Saikin nihongo no gakkou de "2 kyuu" to iu bunpou o sumasete, 1 kyuu o hajimeta...sugoku muzukashii yo. Demo, nihongo no doushi wa chou kantan da ne! Ratengo yori zutto yasashii.
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Postby Nexus Ferocis » Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:25 pm

JDL wrote:Ratengo yori zutto yasashii.



Ee, soo desu. Nihonjin wa Ratengo ka Eigo o narattara, sugoku muzukashii deshoo. Eigo wa nansensu de, taihen na kotoba n desu. Tokidoki eigo wa kirai desu.
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Postby Carola » Thu Dec 11, 2003 10:56 pm

Nexus Ferocis wrote: Because in America Anime is growing in popularity, but most people think that it is for kids just because it is animated...


We even have an Anime shop near where I work which sells toys and models of Anime characters, Anime computer games etc etc. I haven't really checked it out properly - looks fascinating.
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Postby Keesa » Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:54 pm

First German, now Japanese. :melodramatic sigh: If only I could study every single language in the world so that I could follow conversations around here. :wink:
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Postby mingshey » Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:35 am

Nexus Ferocis wrote:Takusan Anime o miru n desu. Demo, jimaku wa nakereba, amari wakarimasen. Motto Nihongo ga wakaru yoo ni naritai n desu. Kakiru no taihen desu ne? Tonikaku, Mononoke Hime ga ichiban Anime suki desu. Akira yori n da. Anata ga Anime o mimasu ka? Nihon de donna eiga ga ichiban suki desu ka? Dono eiga?


(crude translation: (I'm) watching many Anime's. but since there's no caption it's very difficult to understand. ... But Japanese (itself) is quite easy. (Although) It's difficult to write(?). (...?) Mononoka Hime is (my) most favorite Anime. as much as Akira. Do you watch Anime? Which of Japanese movie do you like best? That movie?)

If you liked Mononoke Hime, you might also like Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind(Kaseno Tanino Naushika). I like the Manga version of it the more. Tha Anime is an abridged(and incomplete) version of it.
I keep DVD's of the "Seven Samurai" and "Yojimbo", the old japanese movies that brought forth many remakes.

p.s.
Beruseruku(Berserk) is a dark, gory, and creepy nightmare-o-genic, killer manga(anime too). strong recommendation for only those who like it. :D
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Postby Nexus Ferocis » Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:09 pm

Takusan Anime o miru n desu. Demo, jimaku wa nakereba, amari wakarimasen. Motto Nihongo ga wakaru yoo ni naritai n desu. Kakiru no taihen desu ne? Tonikaku, Mononoke Hime ga ichiban Anime suki desu. Akira yori n da. Anata ga Anime o mimasu ka? Nihon de donna eiga ga ichiban suki desu ka? Dono eiga?


Complete translation: I watch lots of Anime, (I meant to put a comma here) but if there are no subtitles, I cannot understand much. I want to be able to understand more Japanese. Writing is hard, isn’t it? Anyway, Princess Mononoke is my favorite Anime (Movie, that is). I like it better than Akira. Do you watch Anime? Which Japanese movies do you like best? What kind of movie?

Mingshey, what are you doing knowing Japanese? :o I never thought so many people would know it. Difficult language, though. Grammatically, I find it easy, but the honorifics are hard and there is so much that doesn’t translate at all. You know, use the wrong honorific verb for give and your insulting someone, comparing him to a dog or something. Well, I’m sure they would forgive us Gai-jin. :)
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Postby Episcopus » Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:35 pm

Talking about Japanese Chinese is crazy.
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Postby mingshey » Wed Dec 17, 2003 5:29 am

Nexus Ferocis wrote:Mingshey, what are you doing knowing Japanese? :o I never thought so many people would know it. Difficult language, though. Grammatically, I find it easy, but the honorifics are hard and there is so much that doesn’t translate at all. You know, use the wrong honorific verb for give and your insulting someone, comparing him to a dog or something. Well, I’m sure they would forgive us Gai-jin. :)


Grammatically japanese is almost the same as my mother tongue, Korean. But I only took the beginner's course and do not know many a vocabulary. There's are many Anime fans in Korea and they have translated most of the anime into Korean. It's very easy to download the subtitles translated into Korean through the internet. Having learned the basics, I can catch some of the japanese speach while reading the subtitle.
Japnese tongue is composed of only fifty or so syllables and so there are great possibility of ambiguities when spoken. And thus, confusion. --- But the very fact opened a possibility of pangram in japanese. An old japanese zen poem, Irowa Uta("Color is"-Song) is a pangram(a sentence composed of every alphabet, each used only once).

Korea and Japan imported the chinese characters through somewhat different routes. Korean has quite a consistent, single reading convention for chinese characters. But Japan had imported the chinese character set firstly through Korea, and then later directly from China, through several different dynasties of Imperial Chinese. Thus Japanese has several different reading conventions for Chinese characters(Kan-ji). This is a hard challenge for gaikokujins, indeed. And moreover, since japanese uses different kanji's for different nuances of seemingly the same native japanese word, and read the kanji after their native word, kanji's take different pronunciation between different usages. A total chaos for foreigners. So much for kanji.

If I should become fluent in Japanese, it has a great usage. Since it's said that almost every books in the world are translated into Japanese(sometimes earlier than the original!), you get a broad access channel for information and knowledge with it.
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Postby Keesa » Wed Dec 17, 2003 2:44 pm

Wow. :shock:
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