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Need feedback for this English to Latin translation

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Need feedback for this English to Latin translation

Postby autophile » Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:43 pm

Hi all,

I've attempted a translation of this English sentence into Latin, and I would appreciate any pointers, corrections, suggestions, and so on. In the following, it is assumed that the state of Maryland is translated as "Mary's Land": Terra Mariae, and the Chesapeake is Chesapicus. I'm more concerned about all the other words!

"So prominent is the Chesapeake in Maryland's geography and economic life, that there has been periodic agitation to change the state's official nickname to the 'Bay State'."

Chesapicus in geographia et vita economica tantum prominens est ut commotio typica fuit ut agnomen officiale civitatis commutetur in 'Civitatem Sini'.

Thanks for any feedback!

--Rob
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Re: Need feedback for this English to Latin translation

Postby Diaphanus » Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:32 pm

I have some brief comments about the names.

Terra Mariae is fine.

"Chesapeake Bay" has been written as Sinus de Chesopeake, but the Terra Mariae entry at Vicipaedia uses Sinus Chesapicus (although I think perhaps Sinus Chesapicensis or Sinus Chesapicanus would make more sense).
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Re: Need feedback for this English to Latin translation

Postby ptolemyauletes » Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:50 pm

Hi. A few suggestions.
The phrase 'tantum prominens' doesn't really work. 'tantum' doesn't work as an adverb in this sense, and 'promineo' literally means to jut out. You are trying to say 'so important', so I would suggest 'tanti momenti'.

Your first 'ut' clause needs a subjunctive verb, and 'commotio typica' doesn't really do it for me to mean periodic agitation. The commotio seems fine, but I would suggest 'interdum' instead of 'typica'. 'ut interdum commotio esset'

Lastly, following an abstract noun such as 'commotio', Latin seems to me to be screaming out for an 'ad' + gerundive construction. How about 'ad agnomen civitatis publicum in 'Civitatem Sini' commutandum'

Helpful?
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Re: Need feedback for this English to Latin translation

Postby autophile » Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:40 pm

That was extremely helpful. So, to summarize:

1. momenti = "of importance", tanti momenti = "of such great importance"
2. ut interdum commotio esset = "that every so often there is agitation"
3. ad agnomen...commutandum = "for the purpose of changing the state's official nickname to 'Bay State'"

Thanks, this really helps improve my Latin.

As for the names... I'm the idiot who is attempting to write the Vicipaedia entry on Maryland, so Sinus Chesapicus is completely unsourced. After being kicked in the a**, hard, several times with the "Noli fingere" rule, I changed the name to the last known attested Latin usage, Sinus de Chessopeake. I also changed many of the names back to their English forms if I found no Latin usage, or to the last known Latin usage if I could find one (as in Flumen de Pattowomack for Potomac River).

Thanks again!
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Re: Need feedback for this English to Latin translation

Postby Iulia » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:32 pm

Re:
2. ut interdum commotio esset = "that every so often there is agitation"


since this clause follows a main verb in the present tense [tanti momenti est], I suspect that a verb in the Present Subjunctive (following the rule of the Sequence of Tenses) would be a bit more grammatical.

tanti momenti est ut interdum commotio sit
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Re: Need feedback for this English to Latin translation

Postby ptolemyauletes » Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:49 pm

Yes, thank you Iulia.
I was thinking about another of Autophile's requests, with a different opening phrase. Present 'sit' is the best here.
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Re: Need feedback for this English to Latin translation

Postby thesaurus » Sat Jul 11, 2009 7:41 am

autophile wrote:As for the names... I'm the idiot who is attempting to write the Vicipaedia entry on Maryland, so Sinus Chesapicus is completely unsourced. After being kicked in the a**, hard, several times with the "Noli fingere" rule, I changed the name to the last known attested Latin usage, Sinus de Chessopeake. I also changed many of the names back to their English forms if I found no Latin usage, or to the last known Latin usage if I could find one (as in Flumen de Pattowomack for Potomac River).


Outside the authoritarian regime of Vicipaeida, I wouldn't worry about the "unsourced" nature of your names. It's ridiculous that we're forced to mine for previous, "official" uses of Latin names as opposed to inventing them ourselves. This practice runs completely contrary to Vicipaedia's dedication to Latin as a living language. If Latin is a language, then its users create its usage. If we are going to hang on the every Latin word of some nobody explorer or Jesuit from the 18th century, we might as well admit that the language is completely stagnant and give up the whole Vicipaedia project.

Extra regnum tyranicum Vicipaediae ipsae, noli sollicitari nominibus "sine fontibus" utens. Ridiculum! nos hodie viventes et Latine scribentes alicubi fodiamus oportet ut nomina "officialia" locorum inveniamur, non ipsi ea fabricantes. Hic mos valde finibus Vicipaediae obfendit quae Latinam esse linguam vivam statuit. Si reapse Latina lingua est, illi ea utentes nomina fingunt. Si semper hic et illic grassamur, omne e verbo Latino in aliquoque libro nesciocuius exploratoris vel Jesuitae reperto pendentes, necesse est nos profiteamur hanc linguam adusque inertem esse atque relinquamus hoc ipsum Vicipaediae molimentum.
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
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Re: Need feedback for this English to Latin translation

Postby autophile » Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:43 pm

Fisticuffs!

I presume it's an editing decision about style. I've seen that even medievalisms are frowned upon, if there is a classical phrase that would do as well. Furthermore, you get dinged if you use a word idiomatically -- that is, if the Classics didn't use a word in that way, you can't either, even if modern language does.

But, like I said, it's most likely a style that the editors are going for, and I can't really argue against that.
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Re: Need feedback for this English to Latin translation

Postby Diaphanus » Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:11 pm

thesaurus wrote:Outside the authoritarian regime of Vicipaeida, I wouldn't worry about the "unsourced" nature of your names.

Yes, don't let Vicipaedia be your straitjacket. When I Latinize modern names (e.g. Satico for Sachiko), and when I made up my Nova Iuncta Verba Latina, I mostly ignore Vicipaedia.
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