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and the two shall become one

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and the two shall become one

Postby James924 » Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:18 pm

My fiancee and I want this sentence fragment inscribed on our wedding bands: "and the two shall become one flesh." From Mark 10:8. When I look up the latin vulgate version this fragment would read as "et erunt duo in carne una..." Is there anything goofy about that? I know in english we can quote sentence fragments and it sounds fine but I was wondering if there was anything strange about how it would read in latin. it will have the standard "..." to show that its just a fragment.
Any thoughts? Suggestions?
Thanks in advance for any help.
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Re: and the two shall become one

Postby bedwere » Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:52 am

Looks good to me. Congratulations!
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Re: and the two shall become one

Postby adrianus » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:14 am

Me, too. It's nice, apt and accurately expressed, I think. Nothing funny, except for the ellipsis! That's no big deal, but you did mention it specifically, though. The ellipsis is misleading (in English language conventions, mind you) because it suggests that the phrase is at the start of a sentence. (You have the ellipsis at the end; it should be at the start.) It is best without it, altogether. In talking about the extract within a sentence that you have already introduced you say "...et erunt duo in carne una." If it is in inverted commas at the beginning of your own sentence containing the extract, you write this "[E]t erunt duo in carne una." You don't write this "...et erunt uno in carne una." at the start of your own sentence because, in that case, you need a capital letter to begin your bigger sentence. You write this when the phrase is in the middle of a sentence "...et erunt duo in carne una...". My advice is, drop the ellipsis. The "et" subtly and simply makes it clear that the phrase is extracted. Nor would the period at the end be necessary, so "et erunt duo in carne una". If you still like the ellipsis, then put it in because its use will make sense wherever you place it, no matter what a fussy editor might say, and it pleases you. You can also write "unâ" with a circumflex but most people would not. Personally, I do because I like that convention.

Concurro. Et bellum et aptum et accuratum est, meâ sententiâ. Nihil est quod corrigendum sit nisi locum ellipsis! Res parvula est; tu autem ipse eam expressim tetigisti. Quoniam clausula ipsa sententiam terminat, ante clausulam ellipsis scribitur, sicut "...et erunt duo in carne una." In sententiâ tuâ incipiendâ, cum eâ ratione majusculae litterae opus sit, scribas itá: "[E]t erunt duo in carne una." Consilium meum est hoc: ellipsis omittatur. Ut clausulam ê loco quodam extractam esse sciatur, sufficit iam "et" vocabulum solum. Si ellipsem etiam attineas, dein attineas et redactores curiosos neglegas, quià quaquà ellipsis positura sit ea intellegetur,—deniquè placeat. Cum accento circumflexo "a" litteram in "unâ" scribere potes; sic non scribant plerusque. Ego ipse sic scribo quià mos mihi placet.
Last edited by adrianus on Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: and the two shall become one

Postby adrianus » Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:42 am

This just occurred to me, James924. An ellipsis at the end of a phrase in non-academic writing nowadays can act like a pointer to the future, or to suggest expectancy. Unfortunately, interpreted here in that sense, placed as it is at the end of the clause and in the context of the words alone despite the context of the wedding band and all else that might be said, it allows a joke to be made about carnality. People can say "dot dot dot" with raised eyebrows at the end. You avoid that possibility by putting the ellipsis at the start, rather than at the end. At the beginning, not only does the ellipsis have a correct academic sense but it's nicer because it points to fulfillment rather than uncertainty: "...et erunt duo in carne una."

Hoc modò mihi occurrit, Jacobe924. His diebus, in scriptis non academicis potest ut ellipsis in fine sententiae tempus futurum vel expectationis sensum indicet. Infelix est quod hîc, et ellipsi in fine clausulae positâ, et significatione anuli nuptialis in ipso neglectâ, et significatione rei scriptae solae intuitâ, et omnibus aliis quae dicantur omissis, possibilitas joci lascivi permittitur. Superciliis elevatis aliquis "punctum punctum punctum" in fine illius clausulae dicere possit. Si ellipsim ante non post clausulam pones, hanc possibilitatem deminues. In principio non solùm accuratè posita sit ellipsis, sed etiam completionis non dubitationis sensum in toto det, et ideò "...et erunt duo in carne unâ." in dicendo id mundius sit.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: and the two shall become one

Postby lombard » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:00 pm

Your ring is not so much a quotation as a monument. It is common in monumental inscriptions (at least in moder usage) to use pieces of quotes. You neither need the elipses nor the 'et.' Why not simply use: "ERUNT DUO IN CARNE UNA"? I like the feel of the capitals because of its nature as a monument.
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