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Italia (inter?) duo maria _inter_est?

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Italia (inter?) duo maria _inter_est?

Postby Cyborg » Mon May 25, 2009 11:37 pm

Quick and easy question:

Instead of:
Discipulus ad ludum advenit.

Is it correct/possible to say:
Discipulus ludum advenit.

and

Instead of:
Italia inter duo maria interest.

Is it correct/possible to say:
Italia duo maria interest.

(and so on and so forth...)

to avoid redundancy?

What I mean by the question is whether the Classical Latin writers ever left those prepositions out, given that they are very clearly marked by the verb.
It is just weird to me that with all the implicitness and succinctness of words that the Romans practiced, to think that they would repeat the preposition in a sentence.

Thoughts?
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Re: Italia (inter?) duo maria _inter_est?

Postby Lucus Eques » Tue May 26, 2009 1:56 am

Sometimes now and again I myself believe a little bit of just some small redundancy and repetition makes for a clear, intelligible sentence phrase without any unfortunate chance of abiguity or misunderstanding at all whatsoever in the slightest bit. ;)

I know what you mean, and from what I know, yes, the preposition may be attached to the verb, separate, or doubled redundantly — but that doesn't mean the object will remain necessarily in the same case; for example, "convenire," "to meet," will take the accusative of object, not the ablative (as "cum" is an ablative preposition added to "venire") — in part, this has to do with the transition in change of meaning from litteral to figurative, from "to come with" to "to meet."

So, watch out for those; you'll encounter them plenty as you procede with Ørberg's Lingua Latina.
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Re: Italia (inter?) duo maria _inter_est?

Postby Lucus Eques » Tue May 26, 2009 2:00 am

Also, you say Latin has implicit qualities; it does, at times, but I find that Latin is actually much, much, much more explicit than English, stating very clearly what we often leave quite implicit in English (this makes in an excellent language for science). Mostly this has to do with the fact that Latin abhors most compound nouns (whereas we can string a dozen nouns in a row and it makes perfect sense, while Latin will need many clear cases and prepositions — think military department titles in English). Also, it is a matter of style. Italian and the Romance languages tend to be between English and Latin, in this respect.

I believe ancient Greek differs from Latin considerably, also, in the same respect, being quite implicit like English — but I am not yet well trained enough in the language to assert that positively, and I would welcome debate.
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Re: Italia (inter?) duo maria _inter_est?

Postby Cyborg » Tue May 26, 2009 12:30 pm

Oh yes, I forgot about that. I do have to mind the cases each verb takes. Indeed it may change from a verb plus preposition to a verb without it.

I find your comments interesting. Do you have any examples off the top of your head to illustrate them?

And I'd also very much like to read opinions on the clarity/implicity of Latin vs Greek.

Thanks for the help, Luce!
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