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Verbal noun phrases- gerund or participle?

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Verbal noun phrases- gerund or participle?

Postby galen697 » Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:48 pm

I've been wondering about how to say in Latin a phrase like "Running of the Bulls", Changing of the Guard" or "Singing of the National Anthem". While a gerund would typically cover the act of doing the verb, I'm at a bit of a hitch because a nominative gerund doesn't exist.

So how would I express a phrase like this? I suppose "Cursus Taurorum" would cover the first one, but I'm not sure it really gives me the "feel" I'm trying to get.
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Re: Verbal noun phrases- gerund or participle?

Postby benissimus » Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:03 pm

galen697 wrote:I've been wondering about how to say in Latin a phrase like "Running of the Bulls", Changing of the Guard" or "Singing of the National Anthem". While a gerund would typically cover the act of doing the verb, I'm at a bit of a hitch because a nominative gerund doesn't exist.

So how would I express a phrase like this? I suppose "Cursus Taurorum" would cover the first one, but I'm not sure it really gives me the "feel" I'm trying to get.

You are correct, in that you have to use a verbal noun. The nominative gerund does not exist and although the infinitive often fills that role, it would not be appropriate here due to the presence of the genitive modifier.
flebile nescio quid queritur lyra, flebile lingua murmurat exanimis, respondent flebile ripae
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Re: Verbal noun phrases- gerund or participle?

Postby adrianus » Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:59 pm

Unless I'm mistaken/nisi fallor...
2. mutatio custodiae seu (cum "est" verbo ac infinitivo) custodiam mutare est quod...
3. cantio antiphonae genticae seu (cum "est" verbo ac infinitivo) antiphonam genticam cantare est quod...

Your second and third examples have objective genitives. The first one of your examples, galen697, doesn't fit the "infinitive" form because the noun there can't be put into the accusative (it's subjective genitive), unless you cheat a little.
Et secundum et tertium exemplorum tuorum objectivum genetivum habet. Infinitivi formula primo exemplo non aptat quià, nisi aliquantùm circumducis, nomen ibi in casu accusativo poni non potest, cur subjectivum genetivum habet.
1. cursus taurorum seu (cum "esse" verbo ac infinitivo atque accusativo) tauros currere facere/videre est quod...
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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