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Question about -dam suffix/particle

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Question about -dam suffix/particle

Postby Quis ut Deus » Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:52 am

Salvete omnes!

What exactly does "-dam" do to a word in Latin?

For example, "quibusdam."

Here is a sample sentence from the Venerable Bede:

"uineas etiam quibusdam in locis germinans..."

My translation is something like this:

"vines were also sprouting forth in places"

I'm not sure what to do with "quibusdam." I know its either dative or ablative and plural.

Is it "in which?"

Thanks for any help.

Gratis vobis ago.

Valete!
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Re: Question about -dam suffix/particle

Postby Kasper » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:45 am

Forms of 'quidam', including quibusdam mean something like 'some' or '(a) certain'.

In your case quibusdam in locis means 'in some places', or 'in certain places'.
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Re: Question about -dam suffix/particle

Postby Quis ut Deus » Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:00 am

Man, you guys make it look easy!

Gratias tibi ago et vale!
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Re: Question about -dam suffix/particle

Postby Kasper » Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:06 am

The most important step to progress, i have found, is to stop thinking it hard. :P
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Re: Question about -dam suffix/particle

Postby thesaurus » Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:13 am

A quick hint (which I used to confuse): make sure not to confuse quidam and quidem, the latter an adverb meaning "indeed/certainly."
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
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Re: Question about -dam suffix/particle

Postby Quis ut Deus » Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:15 am

Thanks a lot!
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Re: Question about -dam suffix/particle

Postby adrianus » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:05 pm

Salve Quis ut Deus
Quis ut Deus wrote:"uineas etiam quibusdam in locis germinans..."

My translation is something like this:

"vines were also sprouting forth in places"

Since "vineas" is accusative plural and "germinans" nominative singular, the participle "germinans" qualifies the subject "insula". So strictly, I think, it's...
Participium praesens "germinans", quià nominativo casu et singulariter non accusativo et pluraliter, ad "insula" subjectum adicitur. Ideò adstrictè, ut opinor, sit:
[the island] also producing (or shooting forth) vines here and there (or in certain places)

http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/bede/bede1.shtml
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: Question about -dam suffix/particle

Postby Quis ut Deus » Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:41 pm

Adrianus,

Gratias tibi ago!

Thanks for the correction.

I'm working on it night and day, but sometimes I miss those little things!

Vale!
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Re: Question about -dam suffix/particle

Postby Imber Ranae » Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:24 pm

Just to add to what the others have said, quidam, quaedam, quodam is an indefinite pronoun used by the speaker or writer when he has some definite instances in mind of whatever he's talking about, but does not wish to specify them to the listener or reader, either out of politeness or because he doesn't wish to reveal anything or feels it unimportant. It is often translated "certain" or "a certain" (singular), though that sometimes sounds over-translated in English. You may instead translate it with the word "some", but when doing so you have to keep in mind that the meaning is more particular in Latin than in English. You would not use quidam when "some" means "some or other", i.e. when the speaker/writer is himself not referring to anyone/thing as definite, as in "some men are evil" = "there are men who are evil", as opposed to "certain men (but I won't mention their names) are evil". Here you would instead use aliquis, quispiam (somewhat rare), or for special emphasis nescio quis.

It should also be carefully distinguished from the use of "some" = "a few", as in "I have some money". In such case you would instead use a double negative form in Latin, as non nulli "some/a handful of men" or non nihil pecuniae "some money [literally something of money]".

The force of quidam is sometimes so weak that it may be accurately translated with nothing more than the English indefinite article (in the singular), or not at all (in the plural).
Ex mala malo
bono malo uesci
quam ex bona malo
malo malo malo.
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Re: Question about -dam suffix/particle

Postby Quis ut Deus » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:27 pm

@Imber Ranae,

Thanks for the in depth info. I'm sure in a few months I'll be ready to incorporate it!

Gratias tibi ago.

Vale!
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