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Re: Study Group

Postby paulusnb » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:49 pm

E-mailed Annis. Basically, they have not done a group in a while. Annis will e-mail Jeff, the founder of textkit, to start a mailing list. With this route, the group will only be open to people signed up. Annis said it will take a few days.
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. ~Swift
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Re: Study Group

Postby Ivansalgadogarcia » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:51 am

Well, now let's wait, hehehehe. Thank you. :wink:
nam ista corruptela servi si non modo impunita fuerit, sed etiam a tanta auctoritate approbata, nulli parietes nostram salutem, nullae leges, aulla iura custodient. (Cic. Deiot. 30)
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Re: Study Group

Postby paulusnb » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:48 am

Received this e-mail from Annis.

"Ok, the mailing list exists now.

Visit this site to sign up: http://textkit.com/mailman/listinfo/ovid-a_textkit.com

To prevent spam problems, subscriptions need to be approved, but that shouldn't ever take more than a few hours (longer when I'm asleep)."
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. ~Swift
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Re: Study Group

Postby paulusnb » Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:21 am

Sooooo, are we still on for the Saturday after next? I have signed up for the list.
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. ~Swift
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Re: Study Group

Postby Kasper » Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:55 am

I have also signed up. i'm not sure what to post however, eventhough i am the chairman for the first week!
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Re: Study Group

Postby jaihare » Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:18 am

Kasper wrote:I have also signed up. i'm not sure what to post however, eventhough i am the chairman for the first week!

I sent a test post to the (Pharr) list, but apparently it didn't go through. :|
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τοὺς θεοὺς εὔχομαί σοι διδόναι ὑγίειαν καὶ σωτηρίαν καὶ ἀγαθὰ πολλά.
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Re: Study Group

Postby Ivansalgadogarcia » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:26 am

:O, it's true, has everybody signed in? I did it, so, Kasper is the teacher of the week :lol: , Jahaire, also you will participate in this group? :D
nam ista corruptela servi si non modo impunita fuerit, sed etiam a tanta auctoritate approbata, nulli parietes nostram salutem, nullae leges, aulla iura custodient. (Cic. Deiot. 30)
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Re: Study Group

Postby jaihare » Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:44 am

Ivansalgadogarcia wrote::O, it's true, has everybody signed in? I did it, so, Kasper is the teacher of the week :lol: , Jahaire, also you will participate in this group? :D

Not a chance. My Latin is VERY limited. I was just commenting on the whole of the issue -- that the list isn't accepting posts yet.
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Re: Study Group

Postby Ivansalgadogarcia » Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:57 pm

I guess we can use the mailing list and another site created by Annis, www.scholiastae.org, there we can write annotations on the text, what do you think? so we can at the end show a well fully-annoted text. :idea:
nam ista corruptela servi si non modo impunita fuerit, sed etiam a tanta auctoritate approbata, nulli parietes nostram salutem, nullae leges, aulla iura custodient. (Cic. Deiot. 30)
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Re: Study Group

Postby Kasper » Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:59 pm

Hey that's a good idea Ivan - although we should probably get Will's approval before we do so.

now still, what are we posting? Does the weekly teacher post his/her translation, and some comments? how does the rest respond to it?
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Re: Study Group

Postby Ivansalgadogarcia » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:21 pm

I think that weekly teacher can post his annotations to the text and maybe a version, the other participants can comment and write their own notes. When I say "translation" I mean "paraphrase", a more artistic or accurate translation requires a longer effort, particularly for those who doesn't speak english as native language. What do you think about it? For notes, as I've said, if we use the scholiastae.org site, we can make something like this http://www.scholiastae.org/scholia/Hesi ... gony/1-115, for translation could be Google Docs. 8)
nam ista corruptela servi si non modo impunita fuerit, sed etiam a tanta auctoritate approbata, nulli parietes nostram salutem, nullae leges, aulla iura custodient. (Cic. Deiot. 30)
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Re: Study Group

Postby annis » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:25 pm

Ivansalgadogarcia wrote:For notes, as I've said, if we use the scholiastae.org site, we can make something like this http://www.scholiastae.org/scholia/Hesi ... gony/1-115, for translation could be Google Docs. 8)


Yes, yes, please keep translations away from Scholiastae! :shock:

But otherwise, by all means. Scholiastae exists exactly for this sort of undertaking.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Re: Study Group

Postby Kasper » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:40 pm

Will, re your query (in the open forum) about a suitable text, I am using the text from the Latin Library. The site owner states that:

"I have taken every reasonable precaution to ensure that the Latin texts presented here are in the Public Domain. If any copyright is claimed, please advise us immediately so that we may remove the offending text from the Library."

Apparenlty then, the text is in the public domain, although i have no idea about how reliable it is. Others may have better sources/ideas.
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Re: Study Group

Postby annis » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:47 pm

Kasper wrote:Will, re your query (in the open forum) about a suitable text, I am using the text from the Latin Library.


They seem trustworthy.

Which book, and how many lines for the opening sessions?

And it seems like the mailing lists aren't getting set up properly (they exist, but don't seem to receive mail). I'll have to dig into that.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
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Re: Study Group

Postby Kasper » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:55 pm

annis wrote:
Which book, and how many lines for the opening sessions?

And it seems like the mailing lists aren't getting set up properly (they exist, but don't seem to receive mail). I'll have to dig into that.


We are doing Book I of the Metamorphoses (for now). The schedule is as follows:

April 4: Lines 1-150
April 11: Lines 151 313
April 18: Lines 314-416
April 25: Lines 417-568
May 2 : Lines 569-667
May 13: Lines 668-775

Thanks for sorting out the mailing list!
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Re: Study Group

Postby annis » Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:28 pm

So I've loaded Metamorphoses Book One into Scholiastae. I've written a small program (Kasper — in Python!) to convert the Latin Library's very clean HTML into my wiki markup (well, except book 13, which goes insane about half way through). I'll add a few more books in the next few days.

I generally want about 100 lines of verse a page, give or take to match logical breaks, though I'll break things up if it gets more than about 120 lines. So, your aggressive reading schedule doesn't match page breaks on Scholiastae.

In order for comments to appear on the same page (in terms of scrolling through a long page, I mean) as the line they're commenting on, each page should further be broken into sections of about 20 lines. I have not done that to the Ovid text. I'll let you guys decide where sensible breaks should happen. It's very easy to do, just add a </scholia-verse> closing tag after a line, then put a new opening tag with the correct line number before the next line, <scholia-verse startline="23">. Do a "view source" on the Theogony for an example:

Code: Select all
αἵ νύ ποθ᾽ Ἡσίοδον καλὴν ἐδίδαξαν ἀοιδήν,//
ἄρνας ποιμαίνονθ᾽ Ἑλικῶνος ὕπο ζαθέοιο.//
</scholia-verse>

<scholia-verse startline="24">
τόνδε δέ με πρώτιστα θεαὶ πρὸς μῦθον ἔειπον,//
Μοῦσαι Ὀλυμπιάδες, κοῦραι Διὸς αἰγιόχοιο·   <!-- 25 --> //


I've also left HTML comments in the Ovid text which have line numbers, to make finding things while editing easier.
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Re: Study Group

Postby Ivansalgadogarcia » Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:18 am

Thanks a lot Annis, now let's start this weekend. :)
nam ista corruptela servi si non modo impunita fuerit, sed etiam a tanta auctoritate approbata, nulli parietes nostram salutem, nullae leges, aulla iura custodient. (Cic. Deiot. 30)
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Re: Study Group

Postby paulusnb » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:12 pm

Is the List working yet? I have applied but have had trouble posting. Annis said in the other Study Group Forum that the lists are not working yet. Soooo, I guess we will have to push the start date back?
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. ~Swift
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Re: Study Group

Postby Ivansalgadogarcia » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:22 pm

I've received a reminder from the mailing list, anybody send it? :S
nam ista corruptela servi si non modo impunita fuerit, sed etiam a tanta auctoritate approbata, nulli parietes nostram salutem, nullae leges, aulla iura custodient. (Cic. Deiot. 30)
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Re: Study Group

Postby Kasper » Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:41 pm

Hey guys, i've been trying to post to the list, but i keep getting an error message. Have you encountered the same problems?
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Re: Study Group

Postby jaihare » Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:43 pm

Kasper wrote:Hey guys, i've been trying to post to the list, but i keep getting an error message. Have you encountered the same problems?

Yeah, we're gonna have to wait until after the holidays (Easter and Passover) before things get up and running, apparently. :| Patience is a virtue more easily developed under the influence of Valium, as I'm learning on this forum. LOL
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Re: Study Group

Postby annis » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:19 am

jaihare wrote:Patience is a virtue more easily developed under the influence of Valium, as I'm learning on this forum.


Yeah, we still don't have the email issue resolved. It's rather odd.

I would also ask the impatient to please keep in mind that Textkit is a volunteer effort. Everyone involved has day jobs, too, including our site owner.
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Re: Study Group

Postby Ivansalgadogarcia » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:36 am

I guess it's best to work here or at www.scholiastae.org, what does everybody thin?
nam ista corruptela servi si non modo impunita fuerit, sed etiam a tanta auctoritate approbata, nulli parietes nostram salutem, nullae leges, aulla iura custodient. (Cic. Deiot. 30)
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Re: Study Group

Postby arcacaerula » Wed Apr 08, 2009 3:02 pm

Could I also be involved in this project? I absolutely <3 Ovid; right now I'm reading Ars Amatoria and would appreciate the opportunity to work with a group in translating the Metamorphoses.
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Re: Study Group

Postby Kasper » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:03 pm

Of course Arca, the more the merrier.
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Re: Study Group

Postby arcacaerula » Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:20 am

Awesome³! I'm going to work to get most of my school material squared away before this project is begun in order that I can dedicate sufficient attention to the translation, and by that time the semester will almost have ended, allowing more time rebus otii.

Here's to the deliberate approach of the now(less per moment passed) distant summer.
Cheers! :mrgreen:
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Re: Study Group

Postby Kasper » Thu Apr 09, 2009 4:22 am

Summer? It's nearly winter. Which of course, in Aust, doesn't amount to much more than autumn, which i believe you call fall.
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
Kasper
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Re: Study Group

Postby Ivansalgadogarcia » Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:38 pm

Salvete Omnes iterum,

ignoscatis, but I went on vacation (Rome :)), so, may we can re-schedule things or just move a week, how are the others?
nam ista corruptela servi si non modo impunita fuerit, sed etiam a tanta auctoritate approbata, nulli parietes nostram salutem, nullae leges, aulla iura custodient. (Cic. Deiot. 30)
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Re: Study Group

Postby paulusnb » Tue May 05, 2009 11:51 pm

Hey all! What if we just use our e-mail or this forum for the Ovid group until the tech issues are squared away?
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Re: Study Group

Postby Rhodopeius » Wed May 06, 2009 8:42 am

Sounds good to me. ;)
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Re: Study Group

Postby paulusnb » Thu May 07, 2009 2:54 am

Well, I am out of town until Sat. I will start posting musings next week sometime.
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. ~Swift
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Re: Study Group

Postby Kasper » Mon May 11, 2009 4:49 am

Hi everyone,

unfortunately, my work and study load have changed dramatically in the meantime, and i will not be able to participate. Apologies to all.

K
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Re: Study Group

Postby paulusnb » Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:41 am

I sing of poets.

To hell with the list! My mind leads me to begin to speak of Ovid--until I get sleepy (damned flesh).

Before I begin, let me offer some thoughts. Ovid is a problem for me; I do not really know what to do with him. My brother had to read Ovid as part of some Great Books seminar he was leading, and he kept asking me for my take on Ovid. I do not have one. 99% of the time, I can get what authors are doing with Literature. Ovid confuses me. Is he simply the Roman version of a Blockbuster movie (delicious and soulless) or is there something beneath the surface?

Whether or not I ever satisfy myself concerning the matter, I can at least take comfort in the absolute delight of reading Ovid. To the poem.........


The first words of epic poems are almost always loaded. The Iliad starts off with the word for wrath (μηνις) while the Odyssey starts off with ανερ. Both give hints as to what the work is about. The Aeneid starts off with arma virumque cano, thereby alerting the reader that Vergil is combining the Iliad and the Odyssey. So what word does Ovid start with? In, the preposition. Here it means "into" with the accusative corpora. Not too sexy. However, it does point the reader to the theme of change. The word after "in" is nova after all.

Odd thing about the start of the poem is that unlike Homer and Vergil who mention "singing," Ovid says that his "mind/rational part leads him/proposes to speak." He then calls the gods in to "breath upon" his beginnings (meis coeptis) and to lead his perpetual song to his present time. Is this divine inspiration? For some reason, it strikes me as being less religious than Homer. Ovid starts off his narrative before the creation of the world. Interesting to note that Ovid does not mythologize the creation as much as traditional mythology did. Chaos is not here represented as a god. Nor do Uranus and Gaia figure in the creation. There is a creator, but Ovid calls him "Hanc deus et melior natura." This god and better nature does not create the world out of nothing, but separates the elements of the chaotic mass which is made up of all things.

Is it fair to say that unlike traditional pagan mythology, Ovid's Creator God is separate/distinct from the world? Like the Christian God?

Is the fact that God is not shown as creating matter important? What are the theological consequences of preexisting matter? Adam Clark, a Methodist theologian from the 18th century, has this to say of pre-existing matter: "The supposition that God formed all things out of a pre-existing, eternal nature, is certainly absurd, for if there had been an eternal nature besides an eternal God, there must have been two self-existing, independent, and eternal beings, which is a most palpable contradiction." On a side note, Adam Clarke does approve of the "ancient heathen poet's" (Ovid's) description of chaos.

Anyway....I grow tired. I shall post more in the future.
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. ~Swift
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Re: Study Group

Postby Rhodopeius » Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:35 pm

I, too, will comment at greater length when I have the time. IN the meantime I'll second what you said; reading Ovid is a delightful and fun activity, always cheers me up ;) You should see the smile that crept across my face when I first came across that passage in the Ars Amatoria about Odysseus and Calypso! So clever and funny and emotional as well.

anyway, I'll try to review book I of the Metamorphoses tonight, though I probably won't get to it until tomorrow night. Take care, everyone.
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Re: Study Group

Postby paulusnb » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:52 am

Well, Rhodopeius. It looks like it is just you and me.

Here are some more random musings about the opening of Ovid's first chapter.

On Pre-existing/eternal Matter

Lucretius argues the eternity of matter in De Rerum Natura. Nothing ever truly passes away; death always leads to life.


Lo, the rains perish which Ether-father throws
Down to the bosom of Earth-mother; but then
Upsprings the shining grain, and boughs are green
Amid the trees, and trees themselves wax big
And lade themselves with fruits; and hence in turn
The race of man and all the wild are fed;
Hence joyful cities thrive with boys and girls;
And leafy woodlands echo with new birds;
Hence cattle, fat and drowsy, lay their bulk
Along the joyous pastures whilst the drops
Of white ooze trickle from distended bags;
Hence the young scamper on their weakling joints
Along the tender herbs, fresh hearts afrisk
With warm new milk. Thus naught of what so seems
Perishes utterly, since Nature ever
Upbuilds one thing from other, suffering naught
To come to birth but through some other's death.



In Ovid, Creative act simply one of separating and creating divisions

1) nam caelo terras et terris abscidit undas

-He cut away the lands from the sky and the waters fromt he lands

2) et liquidum spisso secrevit ab aere caelum.

And he separated the liquid sky from the dense air

Ovid goes through the elements, explaining that fire is lightest, then air, earth,and water. Not sure what to do with Ovid's description of the creation of the world. I guess by showing how everything was at one point one big ball of matter, he helps to establish the physical world of his Metamorphoses, where the categories between things gets blurred. Also, creation, or change, is what his topic is about. But what of change? It happens. We see this in the first 300 lines. Does he develop this idea any further? And where does one go with this idea?





On to the Golden Age

Ovid rehashes a lot of the typical imagery about the Golden age.

1) no law
poena metusque aberant

2) no fear or punishment
poena metusque aberant

3) no ships

nondum caesa suis, peregrinum ut viseret orbem,
montibus in liquidas pinus descenderat undas,

4) no traveling
nullaque mortales praeter sua litora norant

5) no fortifications
nondum praecipites cingebant oppida fossae

Interesting thing. Ovid can see the value of the Golden Age without necessarily desiring it. He offers an argument against the Golden Age in Ars Amatoria. Now, he says referring to his own time, there is "cultus."

"ego me nunc denique natum gratulor; haec aetas moribus apta meis" Ars Amatoria 3.122

Funny thing about the arts that many will not accept is its connection to decay. This is a silly example, but I hear many say that while they love the "culture" of New Orleans, they hate the violence, decay, laziness, etc. I remember one person telling me "I just want to dance in the streets." When I pointed out to the person that dancing in the streets is directly connected to the things he hated about New Orleans, he became angry (shootings happen at a lot of the events this person wanted to participate in). The presence of a theater in a city can only occur once decay has set in. Odysseus is so curious because he is not the best husband/family man. Idle people need the arts. But what else can we do besides try to cultivate an appreciation of the arts. We don't farm anymore for God's sake. Add birth control to our rejection of Adam's occupation and we have a void to fill.

Notice that Ovid wrote right after the downfall of the Republic. One needs soft pillows and Egyptian courtesans in order to appreciate Ovid.


Anyway, Ovid mentions that the difference between men and beasts is that men look at the stars.

pronaque cum spectent animalia cetera terram,
os homini sublime dedit caelumque videre
iussit et erectos ad sidera tollere vultus:

So perhaps our "decay" is natural in that we are always oriented elsewhere. In Plato's Republic, Socrates has to restart his kalipolis when Glaucon claims that men cannot live on acorns and fruit alone. The souls of men demand nice things.


Interesting that Ovid mentions the distinction between men and the beasts only to tell stories of men who change into beasts.
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. ~Swift
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Re: Study Group

Postby paulusnb » Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:47 pm

Concerning Silver Men...........

Ovid mentions in line 121 the first act of force on earth. Cows, pressed by the yoke, groan. "pressique iugo gemuere iuvenci."

Arthur Golding reads: "Then first of all were furrows drawne, and corne was cast in ground.
The simple oxe with sorie sighes, to heavie yoke was bound."

Of course, this act of violence follows the celestial: "Postquam Saturno tenebrosa in Tartara misso..."

After Saturn is sent to Tartarus, Jupiter sends the cold, causing men to run indoors and plow the fields in order to store up for the cold months. Violence is not brought about by men alone in Ovid's world but in response to the actions of the gods. Short Age. Only lasts from lines 112-124.

The Third is even shorter: "Tertia post illam successit aenea proles, saevior ingeniis et ad horrenda promptior arma, non scelerata tamen."

Why even mention the four ages if he was only interested in the first and the last? I guess typical Ovid. Use myth at hand to own end.
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. ~Swift
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Re: Study Group

Postby paulusnb » Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:59 am

Ovid Book I lines 125-140

Having been inspired by Ovid's picture of of a Golden Age, I spent last Tuesday wandering around my lusciously green backyard. Well, apparently I do not know Poison Ivy from cat's claw vines and now I have poison ivy creeping across my face and venturing into the Stygian Shadows beneath my waist-band. Alas, poor sparrow.


So, it is good that I have been reading about the less verdant men of the Silver, Bronze and Iron Ages, for I declared war on my backyard, spraying roundup on every damned three leafed plant. However, the amount of Roundup I used pails in comparison to the amount of benadryl I am spraying on myself. I sport that little spray bottle like my little brother did his Bonaca.

Anyway, for someone who enjoys the Eastern luxuries of Imperial Rome, Ovid paints a convincing picture of the violation of nature in the Iron Age. I especially love his lines about the ships:
quaeque prius steterant in montibus altis,
fluctibus ignotis insultavere carinae,

and the keels which had for a long time stood in high mountains,
abused (insulted) the unknown waves.

Arthur Golding writes: "And shippes that erst in toppes of hilles and mountaines had ygrowe,
Did leape and daunce on uncouth waves"

I like that . uncouth waves.


Ovid says that these sailors sailed on winds that they did not know. "vela dabant ventis nec adhuc bene noverat illos
navita." Testimony to their newness to water. Is it testimony to their carelessness too? They did not know the winds' names (divinities right?).


I also like the image of men disemboweling earth: "sed itum est in viscera terrae ... effodiuntur opes."

And on the ship there is a cautious measurer (city zoning board), acting cautiously only in the measuring out of boundaries: "communemque prius ceu lumina solis et auras
cautus humum longo signavit limite mensor."

Oh, and I guess I should share this line: "iamque nocens ferrum ferroque nocentius aurum." This is typical Ovidian excess here. He cannot help himself. God bless him, though, because I love it.


As far as interpretation goes (I am only 140 lines into Book I), Ovid is not always striking out into new territory here. But, he is compiling everything (mythology, science, philosophy) into one big poem.

Reading over Ovid's ages makes me realize how much we have to defile ourselves to get what we want in life. We all put our offerings on Baal's altar, kissing his fat feet and rubbing his swollen belly.

But the Iron Age is not the final age thank god, for while men may kill one another for awful reasons, they also kill each other for beautiful ones. There is a scene in the Iliad where all of the cranky old-timers, bitter about the war, catch sight of Helen and realize that the war is worth it. Fight on Achilles. Live and love Paris.
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. ~Swift
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