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Re: Study Group

Postby paulusnb » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:30 pm

Also, this is a schedule from the Iliad group. A little less ambitious than our 25 lines a night.

Schedule: (provisional at the moment)

* May 1: Introductions.
* May 8: Lines 1-10. (GTSS lessons 1 & 2)
* May 15: Lines 11-21. (GTSS lessons 3 & 4)
* May 22: Lines 22-34. (GTSS lessons 5 & 6)
* May 29: Lines 35-48. (GTSS lessons 7 & 8)
* June 5: Lines 49-65. (GTSS lessons 9 & 10)
* June 12: Lines 66-83. (GTSS lessons 11 & 12)
* June 19: Lines 84-109. (GTSS lessons 13 & 14)
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Re: Study Group

Postby paulusnb » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:35 pm

One possibility could be that rather than saying 25 a night, we say 100-150 a week. I don't know about a nightly commitment.
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Re: Study Group

Postby Kasper » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:06 pm

OKay group, so we seem to be agreed that we will do Ovid's metamorphoses?

I agree with Paulusnb that a weekly hookup will probably be better, and setting 100-150 lines per week is fine with me.

Shall we set a starting date of 1 April?
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Re: Study Group

Postby paulusnb » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:58 pm

So, Book I begins April 1st. Book I is 775 lines. We should probably split it up by stories. Finishing up the ages should get us to line 150. stopping at 313 is right around where the flood ends and Deucalion and Pyrrha show up. 313-416 ends at the recreation of men. 416-568 is creation of animals and Daphne. Then we can split Io into 2: 568-667, and 668-775.


Six weeks total.
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. ~Swift
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Re: Study Group

Postby Rhodopeius » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:11 am

Sounds good to me.
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Re: Study Group

Postby Kasper » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:57 am

OKay, so the schedule is set.

now, what exactly are we going to be doing?
If we are all making translations, are we going to be sending these to each other for comment? This would add a lot a time, and may not be worthwhile. it would be more useful i think for each member to indicate to the others where he/she encountered difficulties, either in the text or meter.

Beyond this, perhaps a brief discussion, or some notes on the content?

whatelse?
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Re: Study Group

Postby paulusnb » Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:05 am

We could assign a section to each person and they are responsible for leading the discussion, playing devil's advocate, etc. Perhaps the lead person starts with comment/notes on text and then pushes an extreme interpretation or two to elicit responses.

Anyone know any standards of Ovidian scholarship? The "teacher" of the week could possibly draw from some of it.


We could also make it a stipulation that the "teacher" post the lines he likes. We could also have them work through lines that are tricky.
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. ~Swift
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Re: Study Group

Postby Rhodopeius » Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:09 am

This likes me. Perhaps it's best to have the lines randomly assigned by someone delegated for the task? That way no one can "cheat" by sticking to passages they may be familiar with.
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Re: Study Group

Postby paulusnb » Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:37 am

Rhodopeius wrote:Perhaps it's best to have the lines randomly assigned by someone delegated for the task? That way no one can "cheat" by sticking to passages they may be familiar with.


You just volunteered. I have used Deucalion and Pyrrha in my classes, so skip me for that assignment.
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Re: Study Group

Postby Ivansalgadogarcia » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:24 am

So the schedule is something like that, no?

April 1: Introduction to Ovid (textual tradition :?: , etc.)
April 8: 1-150
April 15: 151 - ?
April 22: ? - 313
April 29: 314 - 416
May 6: 417 - 568
May 13: 569 - 667
May 20: 668 - 775

Respect the way of doing this, I agree with the "teacher of the week" proposal, maybe the teacher could expose the full text of the week with notes and making any kind of paraphrase, not translation at all, then the others can expose their points of view, other interpretations of the passages, etc. Finally everybody could show their translation proposals.

I guess we could ask for help to Annis to make public this workgroup so more people can participate, what do you think? :)
nam ista corruptela servi si non modo impunita fuerit, sed etiam a tanta auctoritate approbata, nulli parietes nostram salutem, nullae leges, aulla iura custodient. (Cic. Deiot. 30)
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Re: Study Group

Postby paulusnb » Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:54 pm

Ivansalgadogarcia wrote:April 1: Introduction to Ovid (textual tradition , etc.)
April 8: 1-150
April 15: 151 313
April 22: 314-416
April 29: 417-568
May 6: 569-667
May 13: 668-775


I am good with this except for the April 1st Intro. I do not see the need (Unless one of you happens to be an undercover Ovidian scholar). Any intro issues that we are capable of working through can/will be addressed in the working out of 1-150. I imagine that we will post our big questions in the initial postings.
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Re: Study Group

Postby Ivansalgadogarcia » Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:31 am

It's ok, we can ask for that things (or comment) in the first week. Everybody agree? What edition should we choice?
nam ista corruptela servi si non modo impunita fuerit, sed etiam a tanta auctoritate approbata, nulli parietes nostram salutem, nullae leges, aulla iura custodient. (Cic. Deiot. 30)
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Re: Study Group

Postby Rhodopeius » Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:34 pm

I was planning on using the online copy found at thelatinlibrary.com. But perhaps it is better to use as many different sources as possible, if they are available to any of us.

So, allotting the excerpts randomly:

* May 8: Lines 1-10. -Kasper
* May 15: Lines 11-21.-Rhodopeius
* May 22: Lines 22-34.-Paulusnb
* May 29: Lines 35-48.-Ivansalgaldogarcia
* June 5: Lines 49-65. -Kasper
* June 12: Lines 66-83.- Rhodopeius
* June 19: Lines 84-109. -Ivansalgaldogarcia

Does this sit well with everybody? Since there is an odd number of us and I know Paulus is very busy, I thought he'd be the one to get off with just one.
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Re: Study Group

Postby Ivansalgadogarcia » Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:10 pm

April 1: 1-150 - Kasper
April 8: 151-? - Rhodopeius
April 15: ?-313 - Paulusnb
April 22: 314-416 - Ivansalgadogarcia
April 29: 417-568 - kasper
May 6: 569-667 - Rhodopeius
May 13: 668 - 775 - Ivansalgadogarcia

It fits well for me, does everybody agree?
nam ista corruptela servi si non modo impunita fuerit, sed etiam a tanta auctoritate approbata, nulli parietes nostram salutem, nullae leges, aulla iura custodient. (Cic. Deiot. 30)
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Re: Study Group

Postby paulusnb » Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:07 pm

Some issues with the schedules.

Rhodopeius wrote:* May 8: Lines 1-10. -Kasper
* May 15: Lines 11-21.-Rhodopeius
* May 22: Lines 22-34.-Paulusnb
* May 29: Lines 35-48.-Ivansalgaldogarcia
* June 5: Lines 49-65. -Kasper
* June 12: Lines 66-83.- Rhodopeius
* June 19: Lines 84-109. -Ivansalgaldogarcia


Scott,

This schedule seems off??????

Ivansalgadogarcia wrote:April 1: 1-150 - Kasper
April 8: 151-? - Rhodopeius
April 15: ?-313 - Paulusnb
April 22: 314-416 - Ivansalgadogarcia
April 29: 417-568 - kasper
May 6: 569-667 - Rhodopeius
May 13: 668 - 775 - Ivansalgadogarcia


151-? is supposed to be 151-313.

Anyway, can we change these dates to Saturdays? Wed. is right in the middle of the week. So, here we go.

April 4: 1-150 Kasper
April 11: 151 313 Rhodopeius
April 18: 314-416 Ivansalgaldogarcia (I am avoiding the section I have taught before.)
April 25: 417-568 paulusnb
May 2 : 569-667 Kasper
May 13: 668-775 Rhodopeius

If all goes well, we will just keep moving through Ovid, sticking with this rotation. I will email Annis tonight after hearing from everyone.

As far as texts go, I do not think we to need adhere to any one text. I was probably going to use Diogenes and the Ovid I already have. Scott, you mentioned Latin Library. Do you have Diogenes?
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Re: Study Group

Postby Rhodopeius » Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:24 pm

Yeah, sorry about that...I don't know where those dates came from. Anyway, it all seems fine to me.

No, I don't have Diogenes. What is it?
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Re: Study Group

Postby paulusnb » Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:09 pm

http://www.dur.ac.uk/p.j.heslin/Software/Diogenes/

Diogenes is a computer program loaded with Greek and Latin dictionaries from Perseus. One can load Latin texts from the PHI institute onto Diogenes ( Basically, anything written in Latin until 200AD). Diogenes can do word searches, phrase searches, etc. The text is also hyperlinked to the dictionaries. Basically, it is like having a faster/cleaner Perseus project on your computer. ...for free. You have to download the Diogenes program and then order the cd's from PHI.


To get the texts, e-mail Bridget Comparini at Packard Humanities Institute phi@packhum.org. You will have to fax a release to her.
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Re: Study Group

Postby Kasper » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:02 am

Hi All,

this sounds good to me. i'll be using the text from the Latin Library - supplemented with online reference material (and i'll check if by chance the local library has something, but i doubt it). It may be interesting to come upon different readings in teh text. this may allow for interesting discussion
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Re: Study Group

Postby paulusnb » Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:16 am

I have e-mailed Annis. I am waiting for a response.
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. ~Swift
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Re: Study Group

Postby Ivansalgadogarcia » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:57 am

HI Everybody,

I'll use PHI text and many editions we have here in Academy.

;)
nam ista corruptela servi si non modo impunita fuerit, sed etiam a tanta auctoritate approbata, nulli parietes nostram salutem, nullae leges, aulla iura custodient. (Cic. Deiot. 30)
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Re: Study Group

Postby paulusnb » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:49 pm

E-mailed Annis. Basically, they have not done a group in a while. Annis will e-mail Jeff, the founder of textkit, to start a mailing list. With this route, the group will only be open to people signed up. Annis said it will take a few days.
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Re: Study Group

Postby Ivansalgadogarcia » Wed Mar 18, 2009 6:51 am

Well, now let's wait, hehehehe. Thank you. :wink:
nam ista corruptela servi si non modo impunita fuerit, sed etiam a tanta auctoritate approbata, nulli parietes nostram salutem, nullae leges, aulla iura custodient. (Cic. Deiot. 30)
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Re: Study Group

Postby paulusnb » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:48 am

Received this e-mail from Annis.

"Ok, the mailing list exists now.

Visit this site to sign up: http://textkit.com/mailman/listinfo/ovid-a_textkit.com

To prevent spam problems, subscriptions need to be approved, but that shouldn't ever take more than a few hours (longer when I'm asleep)."
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. ~Swift
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Re: Study Group

Postby paulusnb » Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:21 am

Sooooo, are we still on for the Saturday after next? I have signed up for the list.
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Re: Study Group

Postby Kasper » Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:55 am

I have also signed up. i'm not sure what to post however, eventhough i am the chairman for the first week!
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Re: Study Group

Postby jaihare » Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:18 am

Kasper wrote:I have also signed up. i'm not sure what to post however, eventhough i am the chairman for the first week!

I sent a test post to the (Pharr) list, but apparently it didn't go through. :|
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Re: Study Group

Postby Ivansalgadogarcia » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:26 am

:O, it's true, has everybody signed in? I did it, so, Kasper is the teacher of the week :lol: , Jahaire, also you will participate in this group? :D
nam ista corruptela servi si non modo impunita fuerit, sed etiam a tanta auctoritate approbata, nulli parietes nostram salutem, nullae leges, aulla iura custodient. (Cic. Deiot. 30)
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Re: Study Group

Postby jaihare » Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:44 am

Ivansalgadogarcia wrote::O, it's true, has everybody signed in? I did it, so, Kasper is the teacher of the week :lol: , Jahaire, also you will participate in this group? :D

Not a chance. My Latin is VERY limited. I was just commenting on the whole of the issue -- that the list isn't accepting posts yet.
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Re: Study Group

Postby Ivansalgadogarcia » Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:57 pm

I guess we can use the mailing list and another site created by Annis, www.scholiastae.org, there we can write annotations on the text, what do you think? so we can at the end show a well fully-annoted text. :idea:
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Re: Study Group

Postby Kasper » Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:59 pm

Hey that's a good idea Ivan - although we should probably get Will's approval before we do so.

now still, what are we posting? Does the weekly teacher post his/her translation, and some comments? how does the rest respond to it?
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Re: Study Group

Postby Ivansalgadogarcia » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:21 pm

I think that weekly teacher can post his annotations to the text and maybe a version, the other participants can comment and write their own notes. When I say "translation" I mean "paraphrase", a more artistic or accurate translation requires a longer effort, particularly for those who doesn't speak english as native language. What do you think about it? For notes, as I've said, if we use the scholiastae.org site, we can make something like this http://www.scholiastae.org/scholia/Hesi ... gony/1-115, for translation could be Google Docs. 8)
nam ista corruptela servi si non modo impunita fuerit, sed etiam a tanta auctoritate approbata, nulli parietes nostram salutem, nullae leges, aulla iura custodient. (Cic. Deiot. 30)
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Re: Study Group

Postby annis » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:25 pm

Ivansalgadogarcia wrote:For notes, as I've said, if we use the scholiastae.org site, we can make something like this http://www.scholiastae.org/scholia/Hesi ... gony/1-115, for translation could be Google Docs. 8)


Yes, yes, please keep translations away from Scholiastae! :shock:

But otherwise, by all means. Scholiastae exists exactly for this sort of undertaking.
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Re: Study Group

Postby Kasper » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:40 pm

Will, re your query (in the open forum) about a suitable text, I am using the text from the Latin Library. The site owner states that:

"I have taken every reasonable precaution to ensure that the Latin texts presented here are in the Public Domain. If any copyright is claimed, please advise us immediately so that we may remove the offending text from the Library."

Apparenlty then, the text is in the public domain, although i have no idea about how reliable it is. Others may have better sources/ideas.
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Re: Study Group

Postby annis » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:47 pm

Kasper wrote:Will, re your query (in the open forum) about a suitable text, I am using the text from the Latin Library.


They seem trustworthy.

Which book, and how many lines for the opening sessions?

And it seems like the mailing lists aren't getting set up properly (they exist, but don't seem to receive mail). I'll have to dig into that.
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Re: Study Group

Postby Kasper » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:55 pm

annis wrote:
Which book, and how many lines for the opening sessions?

And it seems like the mailing lists aren't getting set up properly (they exist, but don't seem to receive mail). I'll have to dig into that.


We are doing Book I of the Metamorphoses (for now). The schedule is as follows:

April 4: Lines 1-150
April 11: Lines 151 313
April 18: Lines 314-416
April 25: Lines 417-568
May 2 : Lines 569-667
May 13: Lines 668-775

Thanks for sorting out the mailing list!
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Re: Study Group

Postby annis » Sat Mar 28, 2009 5:28 pm

So I've loaded Metamorphoses Book One into Scholiastae. I've written a small program (Kasper — in Python!) to convert the Latin Library's very clean HTML into my wiki markup (well, except book 13, which goes insane about half way through). I'll add a few more books in the next few days.

I generally want about 100 lines of verse a page, give or take to match logical breaks, though I'll break things up if it gets more than about 120 lines. So, your aggressive reading schedule doesn't match page breaks on Scholiastae.

In order for comments to appear on the same page (in terms of scrolling through a long page, I mean) as the line they're commenting on, each page should further be broken into sections of about 20 lines. I have not done that to the Ovid text. I'll let you guys decide where sensible breaks should happen. It's very easy to do, just add a </scholia-verse> closing tag after a line, then put a new opening tag with the correct line number before the next line, <scholia-verse startline="23">. Do a "view source" on the Theogony for an example:

Code: Select all
αἵ νύ ποθ᾽ Ἡσίοδον καλὴν ἐδίδαξαν ἀοιδήν,//
ἄρνας ποιμαίνονθ᾽ Ἑλικῶνος ὕπο ζαθέοιο.//
</scholia-verse>

<scholia-verse startline="24">
τόνδε δέ με πρώτιστα θεαὶ πρὸς μῦθον ἔειπον,//
Μοῦσαι Ὀλυμπιάδες, κοῦραι Διὸς αἰγιόχοιο·   <!-- 25 --> //


I've also left HTML comments in the Ovid text which have line numbers, to make finding things while editing easier.
William S. Annis — http://www.aoidoi.org/http://www.scholiastae.org/
τίς πατέρ' αἰνήσει εἰ μὴ κακοδαίμονες υἱοί;
annis
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Re: Study Group

Postby Ivansalgadogarcia » Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:18 am

Thanks a lot Annis, now let's start this weekend. :)
nam ista corruptela servi si non modo impunita fuerit, sed etiam a tanta auctoritate approbata, nulli parietes nostram salutem, nullae leges, aulla iura custodient. (Cic. Deiot. 30)
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Ivansalgadogarcia
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Re: Study Group

Postby paulusnb » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:12 pm

Is the List working yet? I have applied but have had trouble posting. Annis said in the other Study Group Forum that the lists are not working yet. Soooo, I guess we will have to push the start date back?
When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. ~Swift
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Re: Study Group

Postby Ivansalgadogarcia » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:22 pm

I've received a reminder from the mailing list, anybody send it? :S
nam ista corruptela servi si non modo impunita fuerit, sed etiam a tanta auctoritate approbata, nulli parietes nostram salutem, nullae leges, aulla iura custodient. (Cic. Deiot. 30)
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Ivansalgadogarcia
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Re: Study Group

Postby Kasper » Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:41 pm

Hey guys, i've been trying to post to the list, but i keep getting an error message. Have you encountered the same problems?
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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