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Translation - Two Sentences (Rough)

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Translation - Two Sentences (Rough)

Postby username003 » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:54 pm

Hi! I feel kind of bad about this, as I only just joined this forum in order to ask about these two sentences, but I don't need exact translations, just rough idea/meaning.

Please don't hate me. =(

Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito
---and---
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

Thank you!
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Re: Translation - Two Sentences (Rough)

Postby Lex » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:04 pm

I'm not a Latin expert, but a Google search gives:

Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito. =
"Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it."

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur. =
"What is asserted freely [i.e. without proof or reason] can be just as freely denied."
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Re: Translation - Two Sentences (Rough)

Postby username003 » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:08 pm

Yeah, I found those on a shirt website, but it seems very wordy a translation for the given latin words. I also tried some translation websites, none of them gave results worth squat.
I was just wondering if anyone could corroborate what the shirt company says with personal/other knowledge.

Thanks!
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Re: Translation - Two Sentences (Rough)

Postby Lex » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:20 pm

username003 wrote:Yeah, I found those on a shirt website, but it seems very wordy a translation for the given latin words.


Well, you did say "rough" translations! For more rigorous translation, I'll defer to the experts here.
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Re: Translation - Two Sentences (Rough)

Postby Slappo » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:25 pm

username003 wrote:Hi! I feel kind of bad about this, as I only just joined this forum in order to ask about these two sentences, but I don't need exact translations, just rough idea/meaning.

Please don't hate me. =(

Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito
---and---
Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

Thank you!


Don't know the first one...

second one literally (from what I get):
What is asserted freely, (it) is denied freely
Semper ubi sub ubi!
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Re: Translation - Two Sentences (Rough)

Postby username003 » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:34 pm

Lex wrote:
username003 wrote:Yeah, I found those on a shirt website, but it seems very wordy a translation for the given latin words.


Well, you did say "rough" translations! For more rigorous translation, I'll defer to the experts here.


This is true. I am looking here for basically confirmation, as I don't want to be wearing a shirt with words on it if I can't be completely sure what they even mean.

@Slappo - Thank you. As I expected, what I was given by the website is not an exact translation (with all the extra frills, so to speak), but it is still the same message.
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Re: Translation - Two Sentences (Rough)

Postby Kasper » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:19 am

Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.


"Don’t you give in to (lit ‘cede to’) evils, but face (lit. ‘go against’) it more bravely."

The thing is that the latin seems a bit odd for the first part. I don’t quite see why the word ‘tu’ is in there, because there seems to be no need for such emphasis.
More importantly though, to my (limited) knowledge, a negative command is expressed by ‘ne + perfect subjunctive’, by ‘noli(te) + infinitive’, or by ‘cave + present subjunctive’. Ne + imperative seems odd to me...
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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Re: Translation - Two Sentences (Rough)

Postby Lex » Tue Feb 24, 2009 1:52 am

Kasper wrote:
Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.

...
The thing is that the latin seems a bit odd for the first part. I don’t quite see why the word ‘tu’ is in there, because there seems to be no need for such emphasis.
...


According to one web site I Googled, it comes from the Aeneid, Book VI. Maybe it makes more sense in context?
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Re: Translation - Two Sentences (Rough)

Postby Kasper » Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:27 am

Thanks Lex! yes it makes sense in that context. I suppose it even makes sense of the syntactical 'oddity' (in my mind), in light of the free-for-all that is latin poetry.
“Cum ego verbo utar,” Humpty Dumpty dixit voce contempta, “indicat illud quod optem – nec plus nec minus.”
“Est tamen rogatio” dixit Alice, “an efficere verba tot res indicare possis.”
“Rogatio est, “Humpty Dumpty responsit, “quae fiat magister – id cunctum est.”
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