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translation help

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translation help

Postby lacramioara » Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:33 pm

could you tell me what is the latin translation of "grand treasurer"? I was thinking of "magnus thesaurer" but I am so not sure.
Thanks!
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Re: translation help

Postby lacramioara » Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:44 pm

also, for "deputy grand treasurer" and "deputy grand secretary general". please help! I cannot find these titles.
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Re: translation help

Postby adrianus » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:09 pm

Dico "quaestor magnus" vel "quaestor principis" vel "summa quaestorum" et "quaestor vicarius" (deputy treasurer)
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: translation help

Postby adrianus » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:14 pm

Oblivisci: "secretarius generalis et magnus" = "grand secretary general" (+ "et vicarius" = "deputy"). Also "vicesecretarius" = "deputy secretary"/"vicesecretary" also)

+ Nota benè quoquè "vicequaestor" = "deputy treasurer" (or "proquaestor" late-Latin, Lewis & Short)
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: translation help

Postby lacramioara » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:02 pm

I found in some latin documents DEPUTATIS MAGNUS THESAURARII, but I know that is not nominative. which would be the right form?
sorry, I have no knowledge of latin but I have to come up with a solution for this translation...
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Re: translation help

Postby adrianus » Thu Jan 29, 2009 7:56 pm

GIve the whole sentence, lacramiora. What book is it in? Is your spelling correct?
Da totam sententiam, lacramiora. Apud quem librum est? Recténe scripsisti?

In later latin, you have
Deputatus Magnus Thesaurarii = Grand Deputy of the Treasurer/Treasury (since Thesaurarius = Treasurer, Thesaurarium = Treasury)
Deputatus Magni Thesaurarii = Deputy of the Grand Treasurer/Treasury (since Thesaurarius = Treasurer, Thesaurarium = Treasury)
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: translation help

Postby lacramioara » Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:14 pm

I just have these titles(offices) to translate. now I found: DEPUTATIS MAGNUS THESAURARIO
also, for secretary I have to choose between: SECRETARIUS and VITO A SECRETIS. The first term I found in a Vatican document, and the second in a Freemasonry constitution. Can you tell me what does VITO A SECRETIS mean literally? What is the sense, apart from the fact that is translated into English as "secretary".
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Re: translation help

Postby adrianus » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:27 pm

DEPUTATIS MAGNUS THESAURARIO = either it's wrongly transcribed, or it doesn't make sense as a title of office out of its context. What is the full sentence and check the spelling?
lacramioara wrote:I have to choose between: SECRETARIUS and VITO A SECRETIS
Maybe "VITO A SECRETIS" is in another language (Italian?) but it doesn't mean "secretary" in Latin, in my opinion. Someone else may know better. What makes you think it does mean "secretary", if it's from a document you don't understand? (Just wondering about what you're looking at.) Again, either it's wrongly transcribed, or it doesn't make any sense out of its context. Again, what is the full sentence? Also, if you've contracted as a professional translator, you should get a professional latin translator for this.

Sine contextu, alterum dictum latinè confusum est, meâ sententiâ. Da totas sententias.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: translation help

Postby lacramioara » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:50 pm

I found them as such as names of offices.
for Secretarius, as I told you, in Vatican: "Cardinalis Secretarius Status praeest Secretariae Status Sanctae Sedis, id est primum et antiquissimum dicasterium curiae romanae. Praesens Secretarius Status est a die 15 Septembris 2006 cardinalis Tarcisius Bertone".

for Viro à Secretis and Thesaurario, in a constitution of freemasonry: "Sumæ omnes as expensas subeundas receptæ - tributa nempé pro admissione - quæ titulo initiationis grandibus suprà XVIm ad XXXIIIm inclusum, exiguntur, mittentur in thesaurum Sancti Imperii, curantibus Præsidibus et Thesaurariis Conciliorum, Sublimiumque Latomiarum eorumdem graduum, Supremis Magnis Inspectoribus Generalibus, eorumque Deputatis, necnon Illustri Viro à Secretis, Illustrique Thesaurario Sancti Imperii."
this is translated by them in English: All moneys received for defrayal of expenditures, - to wit, fees for admissions - which are required to be paid as fee for initiation, for the degrees from the 16th to the 33rd inclusive, are to be paid into the Treasury of the Holy Empire; which is to be seen by the Presiding Officers and Treasurers of Councils and Sublime Lodges of those Degrees, by the Sovereign Grand Inspectors General and their Deputies, and by the Illustrious Secretary and Treasurer of the Holy Empire."

so, my question is, what would be the difference in sense between SECRETARIUS and VIRO à SECRETIS
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Re: translation help

Postby adrianus » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:03 am

lacramioara wrote:what would be the difference in sense between SECRETARIUS and VIRO à SECRETIS

secretarius = vir à secretis
None. They're synonyms, I believe.
Sunt synonyma, ut credo.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: translation help

Postby vastor » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:34 am

Salvete lacramioaram adrianumque,

lacramioara wrote:could you tell me what is the latin translation of "grand treasurer"? I was thinking of "magnus thesaurer" but I am so not sure.
Thanks!

Perhaps something like:
Dominus thesauri.

Literally translating as:
Master of the treasury.
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Re: translation help

Postby lacramioara » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:05 pm

secretarius = vir à secretis
None. They're synonyms, I believe.


For example, I interpret the job of a secretary as taking care of correspondence, arranging the meetings, documenting meting minutes, etc.
For me, since I don't know Latin, looking at "vir a secretis" (viro a secretis) takes my mind to a secret keeper or something like that. Maybe there was in the past a job of a more intimate secretary, like a confidant, and this was the "vir a secretis".
I don't know the literary translation of VIR/VIRO and SECRETIS taken separately and what can they mean putted together.

This is why I ask you if you know if there is any subtle difference, since I understand now that both terms are translated in English as "secretary".
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Re: translation help

Postby adrianus » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:59 pm

I just repeat, they're synonyms. The secret (pun intended) is in a close reading of both words, because "secretary" also originally carries the meaning (in both English and in Latin) of a confidant, or having access to secrets.
Iterum dico, synonyma sunt. Responsum ad aenigma in "secretus -a -um" verbo invenitur, quià "secretarius" et anglicè et latinè intimus consiliis vel secretis significat.
I'm writing in Latin hoping for correction, and not because I'm confident in how I express myself. Latinè scribo ut ab omnibus corrigar, non quod confidenter me exprimam.
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Re: translation help

Postby lacramioara » Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:45 pm

got it!
Thank you so much for your help!
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Re: translation help

Postby Essorant » Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:25 am

Also, magnus custos divitarum "great guard of riches"
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Re: translation help

Postby G. Pontanus » Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:56 am

About "a secretis", meaning "private secretary". Take a look to Latham and Mittellateinisches Wörteburch (Munich, 1959, s. u.). It seems that it is a medieval expression, formed by analogy with formulas such as "a libellis" or "ab epistulis", which were used to designate imperial servants. Miller in his edition of Erasmus' Encomium Moriae (p. 144), repeats this information, but I am not sure that the meaning there is the above mentioned:

[Philosophi] nihil vsquam haesitantes, perinde quasi n aturae rerum architectrici fuerint a secretis quasiue e deorum con­ silio nobis aduenerint!

I hope this helps.
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