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Oratio in Catilinam Prima

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Oratio in Catilinam Prima

Postby Alatius » Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:59 am

Some time before the forum was hacked, and consequently updated, there was a thread regarding Cicero's first speech against Catiline, in which some links to recordings were posted; I was, however, somewhat surprised to not be able to find any recording of the whole speech online, considering that this particular speech must be one of the most studied classical texts! So, to remedy this, I set forth to make my own recording, the result of which can be heard here:

http://home.student.uu.se/jowi4905/lati ... nam01.html

As always, constructive criticism would be immensely welcome.
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Re: Oratio in Catilinam Prima

Postby Lucus Eques » Tue Dec 09, 2008 2:37 am

Salvus sis, amice Alati!

Your reading is supreme! I was actually studying the selfsame oration, and was intending to make a recording myself! (If I still do, I hope you don't mind the friendly competition. ;) )

The most obvious thing to note is the pronunciation of ĭ — it should have the same quality as ī. This more open quality, as I will call it, also appears in your ēs, which are rather open; even the ĕs are almost approaching the 'a' in English "cat."

Also, with the example "cōnfestim tē," the '-m' sounds a bit shortened, rather than a long syllable; I would choose to pronounce it as "cōnfestintē." (I recognise it because I have often been guilty of the same. :) )

Your attention to quantity is, of course, beyond reproach! and very pleasant to listen to. You have my admiration, as always, and spur me on to hope to do so well as you!

Now, how do I go about downloading this glorious recitation? :D EDIT: I figured it out — already on my iPod.
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Re: Oratio in Catilinam Prima

Postby thesaurus » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:50 pm

Most excellent, Alati!

What a coincidence, I too was planning on making a recording of this oration recently, and yesterday I was even practicing memorizing and reading parts of it dramatically. However, as I'm still a novice in these matters and you've yet again set the bar, I'll enjoy the fruits of your labor.
Horae quidem cedunt et dies et menses et anni, nec praeteritum tempus umquam revertitur nec quid sequatur sciri potest. Quod cuique temporis ad vivendum datur, eo debet esse contentus. --Cicero, De Senectute
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Re: Oratio in Catilinam Prima

Postby Alatius » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:56 pm

Lucus Eques wrote:I was actually studying the selfsame oration, and was intending to make a recording myself! (If I still do, I hope you don't mind the friendly competition. ;) )

Oh, by no means! I would be absolutely delighted to hear other versions, so please do not let my attempt stop you. That goes for you too, Thesaure.

The most obvious thing to note is the pronunciation of ĭ — it should have the same quality as ī. This more open quality, as I will call it, also appears in your ēs, which are rather open; even the ĕs are almost approaching the 'a' in English "cat."

Hm, does this apply to all instances, you think? For, I have noticed that my vowels vary some, sometimes quite a bit, something which I should probably work on, but when I listen to my recording, I find few that I am outright displeased with. If not too troublesome, do you think you could pinpoint a couple of places where each of these vowels are particularly off, in your opinion?
I am surprised you don't comment on ō, which I myself think often is way too open, for example in the word non. Thoughts?

Also, with the example "cōnfestim tē," the '-m' sounds a bit shortened, rather than a long syllable; I would choose to pronounce it as "cōnfestintē." (I recognise it because I have often been guilty of the same. :) )

Ack, you are right. Thanks for the heads up. I guess that I, in my effort to nasalize and elide, overcompensate in circumstances such as these.

Now, how do I go about downloading this glorious recitation? :D EDIT: I figured it out — already on my iPod.

The sound files can also be downloaded here, in different formats: http://www.archive.org/details/OratioIn ... imaAlatius
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Re: Oratio in Catilinam Prima

Postby Estoniacus Inoriginale » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:46 pm

Chommoda dicebat... I had to :) I wish I knew Latin that well, though. Although it is immensly covenient for an Estonian to say chommoda dicebat, and rather insidious, as we don't aspirate adn when we speak English, we sound like Latino gangstas anyway, if we don't try hard. :) Valete et audite nuntios actorum diurnarum a Luco lecto atque Ciceronem absque Alatio recitato, et ego tam possum in solos pro dolor multosve annos colere aperte Latinitatem.
Last edited by Estoniacus Inoriginale on Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Oratio in Catilinam Prima

Postby Lucus Eques » Wed Dec 10, 2008 3:48 pm

Alatius wrote:
Lucus Eques wrote:I was actually studying the selfsame oration, and was intending to make a recording myself! (If I still do, I hope you don't mind the friendly competition. ;) )

Oh, by no means! I would be absolutely delighted to hear other versions, so please do not let my attempt stop you. That goes for you too, Thesaure.


Bene. :)

The most obvious thing to note is the pronunciation of ĭ — it should have the same quality as ī. This more open quality, as I will call it, also appears in your ēs, which are rather open; even the ĕs are almost approaching the 'a' in English "cat."

Hm, does this apply to all instances, you think? For, I have noticed that my vowels vary some, sometimes quite a bit, something which I should probably work on, but when I listen to my recording, I find few that I am outright displeased with. If not too troublesome, do you think you could pinpoint a couple of places where each of these vowels are particularly off, in your opinion?


The example that stands out in particular is the "non vides?" in the beginning, followed by "intellegit" and "videt," and later "venit" — the 'vi-' of course will tend to open due to the environment caused by 'v'. But you're right, I was being to quick on that one — most are really supreme. :)

I am surprised you don't comment on ō, which I myself think often is way too open, for example in the word non. Thoughts?


Well, in earlier recordings these were too open usually, yes; but you've since tightened them up beautifully. And when long-'o' is stressed, as in "non," "victoria," and others, it will naturally open — Italian does the same, and this feature has been described by some grammarians.

I love these recordings! :D
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Re: Oratio in Catilinam Prima

Postby Hampie » Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:14 am

Alatius wrote:Some time before the forum was hacked, and consequently updated, there was a thread regarding Cicero's first speech against Catiline, in which some links to recordings were posted; I was, however, somewhat surprised to not be able to find any recording of the whole speech online, considering that this particular speech must be one of the most studied classical texts! So, to remedy this, I set forth to make my own recording, the result of which can be heard here:

http://home.student.uu.se/jowi4905/lati ... nam01.html

As always, constructive criticism would be immensely welcome.

Oh dear Lord I cannot, and truly I mean it, express my hapiness in words! Du underbara människa! Tack! I've tried to find a full version of this to help me with my studies for a long time - but as you said, most recordings are very brief and the first paragraph, but this is truly wonderfun!
Här kan jag i alla fall skriva på svenska, eller hur?
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