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Laniger contra timens (from Æsop)

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Laniger contra timens (from Æsop)

Postby Gonzalo » Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:23 pm

Hello,

At first, I am going to tell (with your permission) my own experience with Lingua Latina. I've passed my University entrance exam (six exams in fact: Philosophy, Literature, English, Maths, Physics and Technical Drawing) this week and I need to vent out.

I finished the first volume of Oerberg's Lingua Latina the past month of March (having begun the last days of September, if I call to memory well). I worked through it as hard as I've been able. I've been reading aloud every chapter some times -if necessary- and I've also written all the exercises down. After that, I begun to work through Roma Æterna and I worked up to pages 80-90. In spite of these great efforts I've considered necessary to start again from Familia Romana in order to acquire solidly syntactical & grammatical structures, internalize vocabulary and so on. So, I've begun to read (only read) this month the first volume (two or three chapters -even exercises- per day). I am now up to the half part. I hope I may begin the second volume of Lingua Latina the first or second week of July.

At this very moment, after every Latin reading session I am translating Æsop's fables. When I finish it, I want to translate Juvenal's Satires (at least the first book). I am up to the fourth fable and it's being interesting. I prepare a literal prose translation and then I put it into Spanish verse (I'm using a Baroque strophe known in Spanish and Portuguese as silva; i.e. 7 or 11 syllables per verse and free rime). Well, I came across something (laniger contra timens, v. 6) which I couldn't understand. I mean, I don't know how it works grammatically in order to translate it. I think it's something (literally) like "[against] that fearful who wears wool (sc. the lamb)" but I don't really understand it. Shouldn't it be in accusative (contra+ acc.)? Is it perchance a poetic license?

Ad rivum eundem lupus et agnus venerant
Siti compulsi; superior stabat lupus
Longeque inferior agnus. Tunc fauce improba
Latro incitatus iurgii causam intulit.
Cur, inquit, turbulentam fecisti mihi
Aquam bibenti? Laniger contra timens:
Qui possum, quaeso, facere, quod quereris, lupe?[...]


http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/tex ... 3Apoem%3D1

Many thanks in advance and regards,
Gonzalo
Verus enim amor semper tempore tristi elucescit magis. (Philipp Melanchthon: Decl. de studiis Linguæ Græcæ)
Quin age, si quid habes (P. Vergilii Maronis Ecloga III:52)
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Postby Twpsyn » Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:38 pm

Supply inquit. Contra is adverbial: 'in response'.
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Postby Gonzalo » Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:54 pm

Twpsyn wrote:Supply inquit. Contra is adverbial: 'in response'.

Hi,

Many thanks for your response and welcome to Textkit.

Regards,
Gonzalo
Verus enim amor semper tempore tristi elucescit magis. (Philipp Melanchthon: Decl. de studiis Linguæ Græcæ)
Quin age, si quid habes (P. Vergilii Maronis Ecloga III:52)
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Postby timeodanaos » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:53 pm

This is not Æsop, this is Phædrus.
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Postby Gonzalo » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:46 pm

In the first line (the translator) Phædrus states: "Æsopus auctor materiam quam repperit, / hanc ego polivi versibus senariis [...]"
http://www.ancientlibrary.com/smith-bio/2564.html
So, here it's my error -a lapsus. Thanks to point it out.
Verus enim amor semper tempore tristi elucescit magis. (Philipp Melanchthon: Decl. de studiis Linguæ Græcæ)
Quin age, si quid habes (P. Vergilii Maronis Ecloga III:52)
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Postby timeodanaos » Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:33 pm

As Phaedrus correctly points out, he puts the fables into iambic senars, while Aisopos wrote prose. Moreover, Phaedrus more than once alters fables to make them fit into Roman imperial times.
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Postby Lucus Eques » Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:35 pm

"Contra" or "econtra" is also a way for saying "instead." "In response" seems like a good translation.
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Postby Gonzalo » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:04 am

Hi,

[Excuse for my delay but my computer was broken for a while. Thanks for your replies.]

Luke, being you an active user of Lingua Latina, let my know how to work through LLPS II because it seems to be a bit exasperating (the exercises look like a bit long in comparison with LLPS I). I've read some of Domus Latina reading stuff like Catilina's conspiracy and the volume whose name is Sermones Romani. Do you have any other Domus Latina book (Æneis, De rerum natura, Fabellæ Syræ, Cæsar's Commentaries, Amphytrio, &c.)? They seem good and I'll probably buy some of them. Which ones do you recommend? Besides, I am progressing through Athenaze and the new reading books seem also very interesting.

I have some other doubts which have arisen in my review of the first volume. I've read up to chapter XXIX and I probably finish it within four or five days.

Firstly. I usually find sentences where the nucleus of the syntagm (for instance, a Manner Adverbial [apologises if it's not the proper English grammatical term]) is moved: Iter fecit in mirabilem modum vs. Iter fecit mirabilem in modum or In hunc modum locutus est vs. Hunc in modum locutus est Also: Ille magister cum magnâ cupiditate me erudiebat vs. Ille magister magnâ cum cupiditate me erudiebat). I don't know when it's possible to do so. I mean, is it when we use a preposition (cum, ex, in, de, &c.) where the nucleus (say, cum magno clamore) has an adjective? In such a situation, is the adjective always able to be taken out of the syntagm (looking towards stylistic aims, I guess)? Are there any other similar cases? Besides any answer, I'd appreciate any Grammar/Classical/Neolatin source.

Secondly. Is there any good resource (website, grammar, or whatever else) on the usage of such words as, for instance, "contrâ" in the way of manner adverbs instead of prepositions? It really makes me go crazy.

I hope I've expressed this well. Many thanks in advance.

Regards,
Gonzalo

P.S.: Does anyone know how to listen to mp4 files from Vivarium Novum recent LLPS I recordings? So far, Ι've not mp4 player, but mp3 and I'd like to listen to them.
It's been actualized again. http://vivariumnovum.it/prodotti_multimediali.htm
Verus enim amor semper tempore tristi elucescit magis. (Philipp Melanchthon: Decl. de studiis Linguæ Græcæ)
Quin age, si quid habes (P. Vergilii Maronis Ecloga III:52)
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Postby Amadeus » Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:27 pm

Gonzalo wrote:P.S.: Does anyone know how to listen to mp4 files from Vivarium Novum recent LLPS I recordings? So far, Ι've not mp4 player, but mp3 and I'd like to listen to them.It's been actualized again. http://vivariumnovum.it/prodotti_multimediali.htm


Many thanks, Gundisalve, for that link! It's so nice to see that Latin has so many followers around the world. What's even more exciting about these videos is that we finally get to hear Classical Latin spoken in conversation! :D (Although I think I did hear Miraglia slip a bit of Classical Latin in his other videos about LLPS I.)

Oh, and you have to download the Quicktime plug-in in order to see the videos.

Vale!
Lisa: Relax?! I can't relax! Nor can I yield, relent, or... Only two synonyms? Oh my God! I'm losing my perspicacity! Aaaaa!

Homer: Well it's always in the last place you look.
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Postby adrianus » Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:27 pm

Gonzalo wrote:P.S.: Does anyone know how to listen to mp4 files
Salve, Gonzalo/Gundisalve.
QuickTime Mac / PC
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Postby Gonzalo » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:21 pm

I've just downloaded Quicktime player. Humanism (in the classical sense of the word) is something about I am deeply passionate since I've discovered Erasmus when I was a child. Vivarium Novum is really fascinating. I have taken a look and it's encouraging. Such congresses are really nice and about what I am specially glad it´s that there are not only teachers of Classics. Textkit seems sometimes a kind of Vivarium Novum Orbergian lobby. :lol:

I find interesting listening to Latin because it's something awesome to understand it after working through LLPS. In my particular case, I tend to confuse and mix where the accent falls and I am trying to do it properly in this LLPS review which I am doing -these audio files are extremely useful (I am listening to Seneca and the Evangelium, which aren't too difficult to me). Poetry is something more complicated at this point.

In altero ordine rerum agendarum... Feel free to response my doubts. :lol:
Verus enim amor semper tempore tristi elucescit magis. (Philipp Melanchthon: Decl. de studiis Linguæ Græcæ)
Quin age, si quid habes (P. Vergilii Maronis Ecloga III:52)
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Postby Interaxus » Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:08 am

Fantastic videos and readings! I downloaded the Horace. Nice to hear Horace read with such naturalness. Italians sound so much more 'Latin' than the rest of us, despite their soft c and medieval 'ae', and some other idiosyncrasies.

However, I was surprised when Professor Félix S.J omitted the last two lines of Ode 1.4:

nec tenerum Lycidan mirabere, quo calet iuventus
nunc omnis et mox virgines tepebunt.


('nor will you gaze in admiration at the boyish Lycidas, who now makes all the young men burn with passion and before long will kindle the desires of the girls' - Loeb/Henderson translation)

Speaking as a straight guy: May one tamper with the past? Or with great poetry? :?

Cheers,
Int
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Postby Interaxus » Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:41 am

I am glad to report that thanks to Quendidil's link to LibriVox in the thread 'Pimleur Latin (Dream)' I have now found another 'Italian' reading of Horace 1.4, this time complete. :D Beautifully read by Sergio Baldelli.

It's here (under 'Latin - Carminum liber primus - Carmen quartum'). Right click and Save target as ...

http://librivox.org/multilingual-poetry-collection-004/

Thanks, Q!

Cheers,
Int
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Postby Interaxus » Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:52 am

Just noticed that on the very same LibriVox Catalog page there's also Sergio Baldelli reading one of my absolute favourite German poems - Hälfte des Lebens by Friedrich Hölderlin . Warmly recommended to anyone who knows German.

Cheers,
Int
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