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Postby Amadeus » Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:18 am

Lucus Eques wrote:Amadeus, we were talking of elision in Spanish, and, as I suspected, it is as rampant as in Latin and Italian:

http://spanish.about.com/cs/pronunciati ... speech.htm

Hmmm... You know, I think I'll do a little more research on that linguistic phenomenon, because I suspect that elision is actually less in Spanish than in Latin or Italian. One thing, however, seems suspicious about that article, namely, that we put a "soft vowel" between two consonants. The example of AGuRUPADO seems to me to be a regionalism, because I never heard it pronounced that way (and I also don't say GeRACIAS or GaRACIAS, but GRACIAS). But, again, I think I'd like to look into that further, as it could be I'm just not that self-aware of my own language. :P

Lisa: Relax?! I can't relax! Nor can I yield, relent, or... Only two synonyms? Oh my God! I'm losing my perspicacity! Aaaaa!

Homer: Well it's always in the last place you look.
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Postby adrianus » Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:20 am

Meanwhile, I have been looking for nasalization of vowels in Romance languages. The evidence is strong in French and Portuguese but weak for Italian and Spanish (both of which are closer to Latin than French or Portuguese). That suggests nasalization in French and Portuguese coming from a different direction and late, and, indeed, you find research talking about Catalan, Celtic, Polish and Danish influence in nasalization, not Classical Latin influence.

Intereâ, testimonia sonoritatis vocalium nasalis in linguis Romanicis inveniebam. Pluria sunt indicia linguis Gallaico-Lusitanis, sed rara Hispanicâ Italicâque (quae posterae propiùs linguae latinae sunt similes). Quod indicit ut, linguis Gallaico-Lusitanis, sonoritas vocalium nasalis alterâ directione vel modo quàm è Latino Classico veniret et serò, --exempli gratiâ, e linguâ Catalanâ, Celticâ, Polonicâ, Danicâ et caeteris de investigationibus quibusdam.

Rodney Sampson (Nasal Vowel Evolution in Romance, 1999) discusses this (Chapter 3, pp.41-52 and online at http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=EVjCnKuW_l0C ).
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Postby Lucus Eques » Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:45 pm

But the nasalization is intimately tied to inflected endings and to a case system, both of which having been dropped in the Romance languages (save Romanian). The evidence, in fact, for the nasalization in Latin, is that the '-m' was so easily dropped in Romance.
L. Amadeus Ranierius

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Postby adrianus » Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:09 pm

Lucus wrote:The evidence, in fact, for the nasalization in Latin, is that the '-m' was so easily dropped in Romance.
I hear what you're saying, Luke, but lots of case endings came to be dropped without implying nasalisation. I'm not denying nasalization. I'm just exploring the arguments and there are some against it (despite what Allen says).
Quod dicis, Luci, audio. Multi autem casus qui demissi sunt, nonné, nec omnibus casibus nasalis sonoritas implicatur. Sonoritatem vocalium nasalem exstare non nego. Argumenta solùm considero cuius non nulla exstant (contrà quod dicit Allen).
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