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Horatius carmen I, IX, comparative adverb

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Horatius carmen I, IX, comparative adverb

Postby timeodanaos » Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:23 pm

in this verse:

Dissolue frigus ligna super foco
large reponens atque benignius
deprome quadrimum Sabina,
o Thaliarche, merum diota


I remember reading this in school a year ago, and in this context, I remember my teacher telling us how 'benignius' was in the comparative just to mark that he should be quite freely pouring wine.

Just reading it again, it occurs to me that it has to correspond to the positive adverb in the first sentence: "put wood on the fire generously, but also, pour wine even more generously!" so that Horatius lays the weight of the sentence on the pouring of the wine, wine is more important than fire.

Any thoughts? Am I right?
Last edited by timeodanaos on Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby adrianus » Sun Mar 02, 2008 7:36 pm

I for one agree with you, Timeodanaos.
Meâ parte, Timeodanaos, ego tuâ sententiâ concurro.
timeodanaos wrote:"wine is more important than fire"
Well, when you have both, you might look forward especially to the wine. Age, et ligna et vinum habens, vinum maxumè exspectes.
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Postby timeodanaos » Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:09 pm

A problem with my reading:


large in the first part modifies the participle reponens, while benignius modifies the imperative deprome - isn't tihs quite odd if the two are supposed to correspond, or am I thinking too grammatically?


And I would much agree that the wine is looked forward to the most. Even though as far as I remember, the ancients drank very sweet wine, sometimes (especially in the winter) warmed as mulled wine. (this disturbs me, faithfully and preferredly drinking Spanish and Italian wines of the very driest kinds, somewhat)
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Postby adrianus » Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:36 pm

timeodanaos wrote:large in the first part modifies the participle reponens, while benignius modifies the imperative deprome - isn't tihs quite odd if the two are supposed to correspond, or am I thinking too grammatically?
I don't quite understand what you mean, Timeodanaos. I thought you were drawing attention to the implicit tongue-in-cheek exhortation "be generous in piling up the logs and be more giving with serving up the wine". That works for me, as does mulled wine which makes even the worst wine very nicely drinkable (with honey or sugar, nutmeg, cloves and cinnamon)! You wouldn't mull the good wine, of course.
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Postby timeodanaos » Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:22 pm

I meant that the two adverbs modify two different realisations of a verb - a participle and a finite form, respectively, and I thought that might hinder the two adverbs' correspondance to eachother.

You not quite following that train of thought, I guess it does not matter in the greater syntactical perspective, as I am the only one I know to whom this has occurred as a problem.
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Postby adrianus » Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:55 pm

What's the term for that state of mind when you lose the connection between the thing you contemplate and what it signifies? Maybe "anoesis", I think, covers it. Anoesis, I think, can make you seek rules where there are none in your struggle to escape from its clutches. I know that feeling well! Of course, maybe there really is a rule along the lines you suspect.

Quomodò describis illam sententiam cum comprehensionem concilii inter rem et quod significet non iam tenes? "Anoesis" esse puto, seu aliter. Si ità, cave illum adfectum qui te regulas quaerere facit ubi regulae egent, taliter eum perdas. Eum benè novi. Certè, fortassè quòque regula esse quam suspicaris.
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