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We have started Lingua Latina

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We have started Lingua Latina

Postby RedHeadedMamma » Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:07 am

I recived my copy of Lingua Latina. My son and I have spent the past week reading through the first 61 lines of CAP. I.

It has been going really well. My son is really understanding what is being said and even chose to read Familia Romana in bed last night.

During the day, I will ask him various questions in Latin, that has something to do with what we are reading and he always gets the correct answer. He also answered all the questions in Exercitia Latina correct. I am going to have him write them out during the week.

Now I know that it has only been a week, but I am very impressed with how well he is doing and how wonderful Mr. Orberg is. Lingua Latina is excellent.

I was reading through the old messages on this board, and I found a link for the "Dowling Method". While this method makes sense for me or any other adult, can I really excpet my 7.5 son to do this?

What do you think would be the best way to reinforce the grammar?

Now about pronunciation. I'm having a hard time getting the 'Y' sound. It says that is sounds like "u" is the French word Lune. I don't know French at all, so I'm having a hard time with this.

Sarah
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Postby quendidil » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:41 pm

Luckily for you, /y/ is not that common in Latin except in Greek borrowings anyway. You could try listening to the sample over at wikipedia of this sound over and over again; I did this for a few IPA sounds that I was unfamiliar with.

Another way is the following: keep repeating the /i/ vowel over and over again. At the same time, change the position of your mouth as if to pronounce /u/.

By the way, I hope you are NOT pronouncing short "i" and short "u" as the vowels in "bit" and "put". They both should sound like the vowels in "machine" and "moon" but just shorter. The basic consonants and vowels of Spanish or Italian should be a good guide.
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Postby nov ialiste » Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:03 pm

quendidil wrote:Another way is the following: keep repeating the /i/ vowel over and over again. At the same time, change the position of your mouth as if to pronounce /u/.


Or to put it another way, round your lips as if to say "oo" in cool and while holding the lips rounded, with the rest of your mouth say "ee" like in seen. It takes a bit of practice but you will get it in time.

Great to hear that your son is enjoying Lingua Latina. In the long run remembering the grammar as well as the vocabulary really comes from lots of practice. Little and often is good.
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Re: We have started Lingua Latina

Postby cdm2003 » Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:30 pm

RedHeadedMamma wrote:While this method makes sense for me or any other adult, can I really excpet my 7.5 son to do this?


There's really no need at his age. The rote memorization of verb paradigms or noun declensions will simply bore him to death and turn him off of Latin faster than a greased pig can slip through my hands. :D Lingua Latina alone is probably the best thing for him...plus, after a chapter or two, the stories will get really interesting for him and he'll enjoy it immensely. The paradigms will come just by exposure given time...like they would have for any Roman boy or girl.

RedHeadedMamma wrote:What do you think would be the best way to reinforce the grammar?


There are two extra books that go well with LL vol. 1. First, "Colloquia Personarum," also published by Pullins and designed for use with LL. Second, there is a free PDF you can download from Pullins.com which is also keyed to the chapters of LL. Both of these books contain additional stories, related to the original, which will reinforce both the grammar and vocabulary (and one is free! :) ). If you can engage your son in Latin conversation, relevant to the grammar and vocabularly at hand, even better.

I'd imagine that the sky is the limit with a 7.5 year old learning a second language...my son was a year younger when he started at a French immersion school.

Best of luck,
Chris
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Postby philplus » Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:00 pm

Salvete.

I think the one cdm2003is talking about is:

Fabellae Latinae
2006 • 87-90696-15-8 • PDF • FREE | Download Free PDF |
A collection of easy elementary texts, Fabellae Latinae, corresponding (lexically and grammatically) to chapters I–XXV in Familia Romana, similar and supplemental to Colloquia Personarum
http://www.pullins.com/txt/LinguaLatina.htm#set_1

And pullins also provides links to "interactive quizzes covering the 30 chapters in Book I, Familia Romana", which are indicated in http://www.pullins.com/Books/LL/AddLingLatinRes.htm ,
which may be useful to consolidate the grammatical knowledge of the 7.5 old child. But just for fun, I want to add.
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Postby ioel » Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:39 am

quendidil wrote:By the way, I hope you are NOT pronouncing short "i" and short "u" as the vowels in "bit" and "put".

Really? That's what it says in all the pronunciation guides in the books I have seen.
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Re: We have started Lingua Latina

Postby ioel » Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:50 am

cdm2003 wrote:There's really no need at his age. The rote memorization of verb paradigms or noun declensions will simply bore him to death and turn him off of Latin faster than a greased pig can slip through my hands.

That seems to be opposite the view of Dorothy Sayers (http://www.gbt.org/text/sayers.html) and the "Classical Education" movement. Rather, they say that young children, before they reach the stage where they would be interested in formal logic, find memorization enjoyable and easy, and during this stage, all the paradigms should be memorized.
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Re: We have started Lingua Latina

Postby Amadeus » Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:30 am

ioel wrote:Rather, they say that young children, before they reach the stage where they would be interested in formal logic, find memorization enjoyable and easy, and during this stage, all the paradigms should be memorized.


Yyyeah... but the thing is, language acquisition is unlike any other subject. Analyzing grammar to death via one's mother tongue is actually a stumbling block, because you are not able to internalize the new language as you did when you learned your mother tongue. If you take the traditional translation-grammar route, you'll keep translating in your head every time you want to speak or write something in Latin, when you should be thinking "in the language". I haven't read the entire article you linked to, only half way, and I can agree with many things the author says (first the method, then the subject). But I can tell you from experience, the old ways of learning a new language have been superseded, now the slogan is "first internalize, then analyze". :wink:
Lisa: Relax?! I can't relax! Nor can I yield, relent, or... Only two synonyms? Oh my God! I'm losing my perspicacity! Aaaaa!

Homer: Well it's always in the last place you look.
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Re: We have started Lingua Latina

Postby Amadeus » Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:02 am

ioel wrote:That seems to be opposite the view of Dorothy Sayers (http://www.gbt.org/text/sayers.html) and the "Classical Education" movement. Rather, they say that young children, before they reach the stage where they would be interested in formal logic, find memorization enjoyable and easy, and during this stage, all the paradigms should be memorized.


Iterum Salve, ioel!

I have been thinking about what you wrote, and I have to say that I misunderstood your argument, partly because I didn't read through the link you posted. Having done so, I must admit that you (and Dorothy Sayers) are right: rote memorization is useful. I don't know why I forgot, but the Dowling Method, which is recommended before reading Lingua Latina, is just memorization of the paradigms and it does not conflict with the language learning process. So yeah, I incurred in a fallacy.

The traditional translation-grammar approach to learning Latin, on the other hand, should be wholly abandoned in the first stages, or be kept there but only for the sake of those who do not wish to speak and write fluently in the language later on. I understand that the reasoning behind this method has its charm: first you struggle with the formalities and complex structure of the language, and then, after many years of memorizing the rational explanations for that structure, when you begin to read actual texts, all that effort will pay off, everything will come into place, and you'll get to savor the meat of Latin literature. Now, this is true of other subjects, but not of language acquisition. Don't ask me why this is, I'm no psychologist, but that's the reality. Notice, however, that I said that the traditional method should be abandoned only in the first stages and not completely. Why? Well, it's only natural for school children and adults to seek the rational explanation of what they learn, because their reasoning skills are much more developed than when they were infants and learned everything through induction. So we must strike a balance between the purely grammatical approach and the purely inductive (or immersive). Lingua Latina, IMO, strikes that balance quite beautifully. The very first thing you do following this course is reading, i.e., learning by induction, and then at the end of each chapter, a sprinkling of grammar (although not translation, which shouldn't even be taught as part of the subject) to aleviate the inquisitive mind. One thing only will remain, I think, in the process of learning a language, whether it be in the first years of infancy or at the age when reason dominates, and that is: memorization.

Did what I just wrote make any sense? I don't know, I'm rambling... :oops:
Lisa: Relax?! I can't relax! Nor can I yield, relent, or... Only two synonyms? Oh my God! I'm losing my perspicacity! Aaaaa!

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